X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com ([74.125.92.25] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3819324 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:43:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.92.25; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so1627958qwe.25 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:42:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1R+n/JgKDFvltlbnjrxOdZeFWKWM622TkhBHmxd58gs=; b=bnGVmK7RC+wFHthiB7ZYR9fdWINe/7WA0pLyxHG/zGGk5Lwk7G4PoQxxSSWqKnmsJd 2Tx+KF4+Q+huRlVkvmJhGQzCiovMj8pRe829jurbeDWqNUnnIrQaxqBOGxuEIzJJ2dRs NPAusQmjnghd4a5MFJZH/A99lStOPqlq8k8wY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=JJW3vhTUd1AU5w1AXfGyLCFkjLuyCSD/rf2SDWi5RVIaM7ouMX30m+58zmuUdedBnV Gi0vWVJ7F2MhYFKUvCqbwEoGwl5mWKPrUpPZBrGKtwTFMgjI5tkGkiv0wFuVV+94qd9m Pc+sZtOqzco6E0qkAaMfunuJesFK5y0PmEal4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.26.207 with SMTP id f15mr7607410qac.186.1250779372213; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:42:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:42:52 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8cb875059b70a62a Message-ID: <1b4b137c0908200742w166ee9cag2cf810b73050d0d8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cowl Flap/Exit was [FlyRotary] Re: back in the air From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f99e52e2c57ff047193c4f3 --00c09f99e52e2c57ff047193c4f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "what=92s a good core area for the rotary?" Bryan That's a more complicated question than a ROT can resolve. The simplest we have been able to reduce it to is a core VOLUME requirement. A volume between 2 and 3 CUBIC inches per HP seems to work OK. The thinner the rad (and larger the core *frontal area*), the lower core volume you might get away with (at a cost of more drag!) The thicker the rad, the higher Ci/HP value you should aim for. Lots of other factor= s involved as well. Location, room available, duct size & quality, cruise speed of aircraft, etc, etc. Note that we haven't included oil cooling cores in the discussion at this point. Oil is about 1/3 of total cooling in the rotary. Tracy On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Bryan Winberry < bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net> wrote: > With this ROT in mind, would a cowl that has an inlet area of say 50 > sq.in, be overkill? This would support about 150 sq.in. of core area. > > IOW, what=92s a good core area for the rotary? > > Bryan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Tracy Crook > *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:14 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Cowl Flap/Exit was [FlyRotary] Re: back in the > air > > > > Count on Ed to supply the technical background :-) That's another good > rule of thumb on the maximum inlet area too (.3 * core area). More > doesn't do you any good. > > Main point is, You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make this stuff > work if you follow a few basic rules of thumb. (The right ones that is, > there are a lot of bogus ones floating around as well :>) > > Tracy > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Ed Anderson > wrote: > > Past a specific inlet area to core frontal area (this ratio in the vicini= ty > of 0.30, no additional flow is achieved by further opening of inlets =96 = the > exit area becomes the controlling factor. As Tracy stated, probably bette= r > to look to a cowl flap than mess with your inlets if you are getting good > cooling with your present inlets. > > > > Here is an extract out of a study of cooling of small aircraft engines th= at > points out the two functions of your exit area. > > > > *Exits* > > * * > > The exit has two basic functions: to regulate the cooling air > > flow and to exhaust the cooling flow into the external flow so > > as to result in minimal drag penalty. To adequately perform > > the regulation, the exit must act as both a throttle and a pump. > > Throttling is necessary in cruising flight to minimize the cooling > > drag by reducing the cooling flow to that sufficient to meet > > cooling requirements. > > > > In ground operation and in climbing > > flight, the exit must act as a pump to induce sufficient cooling > > flow through the system. Both of these functions can be performed > > by a hinged flap. The fundamental principle here is > > that for any subsonic flow system, the flow rate through the > > system will always adjust itself so that the static pressure at the > > exit will match the local external flow static pressure surrounding > > the exit. The static pressure at the exit is controlled by the > > exit area. > > > > Thus, regulation is obtained by varying this area. > > Opening the flap beyond the contour of the airframe creates a > > low-pressure region that induces additional flow through the > > system. It became common design practice during World War > > II to serve the exit flap to a coolant temperature sensor to optimize > > the system operation. > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Tracy Crook > *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:49 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: back in the air > > > > "So far its looking like I could stand to shrink both inlets a little - > maybe a lot. " > > Mike, > Glad your EC2 & cooling issues are under control. I'd go with a cowl fla= p > to restrict air flow (and increase exit velocity) rather than reduce inle= t > size. Probably less fiberglass work for the cowl flap as well. > > Won't go into the mind numbing formulas and laws that govern the principa= l > but here is what I have boiled them down to: > > It is not the absolute SIZE of the cooling inlet that determines drag but > the *amount of air that goes through it*. > > Main thing is to make sure the air that is diverted around the inlet ha= s > a clean path. (you've done a good job there). Restricting the inlet wil= l > also restrict the flow but why reduce your options for other conditions (= hot > weather, max climb, etc). > > Tracy > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Mike Wills wrote: > > I seriously considered a water oil exchanger. Fluidyne also made some of > those that looked really good. Dont know if they still do. > > > > Ultimately decided not to go that route. So many people were having cooli= ng > issues when I was designing my system and it seemed that using seperate a= ir > oil exchangers would ease potential debug hassles. > > > > I'm mostly happy with my choice. Its working well so far. And using a $25 > wrecking yard RX-7 oil cooler was about as cheap as it gets. My only > complaints so far are that I am not real happy with the looks of the extr= a > scoop I added for the oil cooler, and my braided stainless oil cooler lin= es > are fairly long and heavy. > > > > I probably will redo the cowl somewhere down the road after I get a good > handle on just how well the cooling is on hot days. So far its looking li= ke > I could stand to shrink both inlets a little - maybe a lot. On my flight = the > other day coolant temp never went over 180. And that included taxi from t= he > extreme west end of the airport to the other end of an 8000' runway. > > > > Mike Wills > > RV-4 N144MW > > > > > --00c09f99e52e2c57ff047193c4f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "what=92s a good core area for t= he rotary?"

Bryan

Tha= t's a more complicated question than a ROT can resolve.

The= simplest we have been able to reduce it to is a core VOLUME requirement.= =A0=A0 A volume between 2 and 3 CUBIC inches per HP seems to work OK.=A0 Th= e thinner the rad (and larger the core frontal area), the lower core= volume you might get away with (at a cost of more drag!)=A0 The thicker th= e rad, the higher Ci/HP=A0 value you should aim for.=A0=A0 Lots of other fa= ctors involved as well.=A0 Location, room available, duct size & qualit= y, cruise speed of aircraft, etc, etc.

Note that we haven't included oil cooling cores in the discussion at= this point.=A0 Oil is about 1/3 of total cooling in the rotary.

Tracy








On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:2= 1 AM, Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

With this ROT in mind, would a cow= l that has an inlet area of say 50 sq.i= n, be overkill? =A0This would support about 150 sq.in. of core area.

IOW, what=92s a good core area for= the rotary?

Bryan

=A0

From: Ro= tary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Thursday, August 20,= 2009 10:14 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary]= Re: Cowl Flap/Exit was [FlyRotary] Re: back in the air

=A0

Count on Ed to supply the technical background :-)=A0 That's another good rule of thumb on the ma= ximum inlet area too=A0 (.3 *=A0 core area). =A0 More doesn't do you any good.

Main point is, You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make this stu= ff work if you follow a few basic rules of thumb.=A0 (The right ones that is, there are a lot of bogus ones floating around as well :>) =A0

Tracy

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> w= rote:

Past a specific inlet area to core= frontal area (this ratio in the vicinity of 0.30, no additional flow is achieved by further opening = of inlets =96 the exit area becomes the controlling factor. As Tracy stated, p= robably better to look to a cowl flap than mess with your inlets if you are getting good cooling with your present inlets.

=A0

Here is an extract out of a study = of cooling of small aircraft engines that points out the two functions of your exit area.=A0

=A0

Exits

=A0

The exit has two basic functions: to regulate the cooling air

flow and to exhaust the cooling flow into the external flow so

as to result in minimal drag penalty. To adequately perform

the regulation, the exit must act as both a throttle and a pump.<= /p>

Throttling is necessary in cruising flight to minimize the cooling

drag by reducing the cooling flow to that sufficient to meet

cooling requirements.

=A0

=A0In ground operation and in climbing

flight, the exit must act as a pump to induce sufficient cooling

flow through the system. Both of these functions can be performed<= /p>

by a hinged flap. The fundamental principle here is

that for any subsonic flow system, the flow rate through the

system will always adjust itself so that the static pressure at the<= /p>

exit will match the local external flow static pressure surrounding

the exit. The static pressure at the exit is controlled by the

exit area.

=A0

=A0Thus, regulation is obtained by varying this area.

Opening the flap beyond the contour of the airframe creates a

low-pressure region that induces additional flow through the

system. It became common design practice during World War

II to serve the exit flap to a coolant temperature sensor to optimize

the system operation.

=A0

=A0

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Po= wered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/ma= zda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://mem= bers.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.c= om/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: Ro= tary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Thursday, August 20,= 2009 8:49 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: b= ack in the air

=A0

"So far its = looking like I could stand to shrink both inlets a little - maybe a lot. "
Mike,
Glad your EC2 & cooling issues are under control.=A0 I'd go with a = cowl flap to restrict air flow (and increase exit velocity) rather than reduce i= nlet size.=A0=A0 Probably less fiberglass work for the cowl flap as well.

Won't go into the mind numbing formulas and laws that govern the princi= pal but here is what I have boiled them down to:

It is not the absolute SIZE of the cooling inlet that determines drag but t= he amount of air that goes through i= t.

=A0 Main thing is to make sure the air that is diverted around the inlet ha= s a clean path.=A0 (you've done a good job there).=A0 Restricting the inl= et will also restrict the flow but why reduce your options for other condition= s (hot weather, max climb, etc).

Tracy

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Mike Wills <rv-4mike@cox.net> wrote:

I seriously considered a water oil exchanger. Fluidyne also made some of thos= e that looked really good. Dont know if they still do.

=A0

Ultimately decided not to go that route. So many people were having cooling issues whe= n I was designing my system and it seemed that using seperate air oil exchanger= s would ease potential debug hassles.

=A0

I'm mostly happy with my choice. Its working well so far. And using a $25 wreck= ing yard RX-7 oil cooler was about as cheap as it gets. My only complaints so f= ar are that I am not real happy with the looks of the extra scoop I added for = the oil cooler, and my braided stainless oil cooler lines are fairly long and heavy.

=A0

I probably will redo the cowl somewhere down the road after I get a good hand= le on just how well the cooling is on hot days. So far its looking like I coul= d stand to shrink both inlets a little - maybe a lot. On my flight the other = day coolant temp never went over 180. And that included taxi from the extreme w= est end of the airport to the other end of an 8000' runway.

=A0

Mike Wills

RV-4 N144MW

=A0

=A0


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