X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp107.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.229.98] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with SMTP id 3816786 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:15:44 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.229.98; envelope-from=bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net Received: (qmail 7361 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2009 13:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO acer7fbfa7e2f7) (bryanwinberry@98.88.106.131 with login) by smtp107.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2009 13:15:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: y3Ih_hAVM1nCHBxaOKxITHpXDCQJ9pwp1OEZIwxZp9r.FhF_HnMcArH7ALE6jSTMiunNma.ockk9fpTEvRJuicJp69Hqg_Uf3_aV7I5TijkNtQqsqNa2X6mgk9.7fvjX0v7dH.5sG7wbtKN5bes59hb3GLV8IA9dog8QMnLuuJbfx82hJ_jd3SVtjOzHE4RtbdU8y77G4cNCStMb5BGoIpe4suXqh51aIUtU9uD4xoADD0L6vcANxESnh_u8HJIgEdtQQk0c2bjwl5NnN6DcfyBMs9hRVoF902ycgQ6u53UjCTrTf_tNYHb0yNs- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Bryan Winberry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:15:08 -0400 Message-ID: <96FE756DF8334EDEB0DDC145CBAB03F8@acer7fbfa7e2f7> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA1FE4.622F44F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcogA+J49oo8uYSCSCSuKQCXHgk5cAAAefog X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA1FE4.622F44F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, that's a good one for a bar bet. I never thought of that. Bryan Keep em coming _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:00 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots Another Myth. Back pressure on a centrifugal pump REDUCES the amount of power absorbed by the pump. An empirical test to prove it to yourself. Turn on your shop-vac (a centrifugal pump). Restrict the airflow by blocking either the output or the input. Hear the RPM increase? That's because the load went DOWN, not UP. Tracy (sacred cow slaughtering mode) On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Lynn, What is the purpose of the restrictor in the line from the water pump? Is the air supposed to come out of solution when the pressure drops on the back side? Looks like you would be adding an unnecessary load on the engine to add the pressure in the system??? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Swirl pots I need to design a swirl pot for my renesis/rv6a installation. is there an accepted volume I need to work with? it's my understanding that the water pump outlet goes thru the swirl pot and then on to the radiator input, and that the pot should be close to the pump. would it make sense to look into the pot welded to the pump, if possible? are pots always cylindrical? kevin Here is the system I have used on my race cars since 1975. I then found it on Mazda RX-2s and 3s. My make up tank is actually off of an RX-2. The swirl pot is a replica of a device used in commercial heating systems using hot water to heat big buildings, called a Rolairtrol by Bell and Gossett. Used to remove air from the hot water circuits. Mine are made from expended propane bottles. Smal aluminum fire extinguishers work as well. It is very difficult to remove the air from the rotary engine, and I have the engines out of the car every two or three weekends, so it turned into a giant pain with each refilling of the coolant system. The inlet flow is in the center and on a tangent so as to spin the coolant. Any air pops to the top of the can and as pressure goes up with temperature the air is forced into the bottom of the make up tank. When coolant temps drop a bit the pressure in the make up tank can force only coolant back into the system, no air. After only one heat cycle you will need to add coolant to the make up tank. The overflow tank is required for racing, but never gets any coolant in it. This is not my idea. (The make up tank) It was on every Mazda imported to the US. The cap on the swirl pot is a seal only used to fill the system. The pressure requlating cap is on the top of the make up tank. The swirl pot could have only a fitting for the line to the make up tank. The system can be filled by removing one hose from the pot. The make up pot need not be higher than anything else. Mine is on the passenger side floor. Use small diameter hose in the run to the make up tank. Light, cheap, works every time. Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA1FE4.622F44F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow, that’s a good one for a = bar bet.  I never thought of that.

Bryan

Keep em = coming

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, = 2009 9:00 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Swirl pots

 

Another = Myth.  Back pressure on a centrifugal pump REDUCES the amount of power absorbed by = the pump. 

An empirical test to prove it to yourself.  Turn on your shop-vac = (a centrifugal pump).   Restrict the airflow by blocking either = the output or the input.  Hear the RPM increase?  That's because = the load went DOWN, not UP.

Tracy  (sacred cow slaughtering mode)

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

Lynn,

What is the purpose of the restrictor in the line from the water pump?  Is = the air supposed to come out of solution when the pressure drops on the back side?  Looks like you would be adding an unnecessary load on the = engine to add the pressure  in the system???

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn = Hanover
Sent: Monday, August 17, = 2009 9:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Swirl pots

I need to design a swirl pot for my renesis/rv6a installation.  is there an accepted volume I need to work = with?  it's my understanding that the water pump outlet goes thru the swirl pot and = then on to the radiator input, and that the pot should be close to the = pump.  would it make sense to look into the pot welded to the pump, if = possible?  are pots always cylindrical?    = kevin

 

 

Here is the system I have used on my race cars since = 1975. I then found it on Mazda RX-2s and 3s.

 

My make up tank is actually off of an RX-2. =

 

The swirl pot is a replica of a device used in = commercial heating systems using hot water to heat big buildings, called a = Rolairtrol by Bell and = Gossett. Used to remove air from the hot water circuits.

 

Mine are made from expended propane bottles. Smal = aluminum fire extinguishers work as well.

 

It is very difficult to remove the air from the rotary = engine, and I have the engines out of the car every two or three weekends, so it = turned into a giant pain with each refilling of the coolant system.  The = inlet flow is in the center and on a tangent so as to spin the coolant. Any = air pops to the top of the can and as pressure goes up with temperature the air = is forced into the bottom of the make up tank. When coolant temps drop a = bit the pressure in the make up tank can force only coolant back into the = system, no air. After only one heat cycle you will need to add coolant to the make = up tank. The overflow tank is required for racing, but never gets any = coolant in it.  

 

This is not my idea. (The make up tank) It was on every = Mazda imported to the US.

 

The cap on the swirl pot is a seal only used to fill = the system. The pressure requlating cap is on the top of the make up tank. = The swirl pot could have only a fitting for the line to the make up tank. =

The system can be filled by removing one hose from the pot. 

 

The make up pot need not be higher than anything else. = Mine is on the passenger side floor. Use small diameter hose in the run to the = make up tank. Light, cheap, works every time.

 

Lynn E. Hanover 

 

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