X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3756680 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:47:46 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.53; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1247554066; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=mDmZdqzOXIaIPYT3cF HUM39lMmE2srum83UfDX/nrwU=; b=l6PPwtLMcMHDZyl3jzIFCqhLB1qWV5Hy93Ihd BdM8HLROXMh2TQz0bNlVhocqQZx2V58RRKWf+vhLDl/m/yxyw== Received: from fwebmail01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.151]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20090714064710H0300fgd67e>; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:47:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.115.11.151] Received: from [64.250.219.58] by fwebmail01.isp.att.net; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:47:09 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: INJECTION OIL IN FUEL Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:47:09 +0000 Message-Id: <071420090647.16660.4A5C29ED0007FD370000411422218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16660_1247554029_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16660_1247554029_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, The increase in power is probably the result of the engine seals (most im= portant the apex seals) breaking in.............What seals did you replace when you bui= lt up your 20B ?..............The power increase after several hours of hard running (= racing or flying in our case) has been commented on before by Lynn Hanover and Tracy.= .... My previous post stated that the rotor oil seals scraped the rotor which = is not true............They scrape the side housings............... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Forwarded Message: --------------=20 From: "Al Gietzen" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: INJECTION OIL IN FUEL=20 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:28:02 +0000=20 Kelly; That was my thought also; although I=E2=80=99d not like to think that the s= ide seals in my engine are not too good after only 150 hours. I=E2=80=99m = thinking it could also be influenced by engine coolant temp =E2=80=93 my cr= uise temp was running down around 140F at the time I was seeing fairly rapi= d buildup of 2-stroke oil in the pan. Cooler side housing temp; more of th= e oil condensing there, maybe? Would poor side seals also result in loss of power? My engine power has im= proved slightly over the past couple years. Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: INJECTION OIL IN FUEL Group, One other opinion on this subject............The condition of the rotor= oil side seals and their respective "O" rings probably is a factor (along with the amount of 2 cycle= oil used per gal of fuel) that determines how much 2 cycle oil ends up in the sump...........Th= ese seals essentially scrape the sides of the rotors and if the seals are worn past maximum or th= e "O" rings are heat hardened they will let more fuel mix oil past them into the sump......= ......IMHO -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : --------------=20 > Yvon, I don't know the minimum, but I used to have the same problem. I=20 > would have to drain 1/2 cup of crankcase oil after about 10 hours of flig= ht.=20 > So I started reducing the amount of 2 cycle oil. I have flow for the last= =20 > three years mixing 3/4 oz of 2-cycle oil to one gallon (US) of fuel with = no=20 > apparent ill effects on the engine and I am no longer accumulating 2 cycl= e=20 > oil in the oil pan.=20 >=20 > Ed Anderson=20 >=20 > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered=20 >=20 > Matthews, NC=20 >=20 > eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 >=20 > http://www.andersonee.com=20 >=20 > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 >=20 > http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >=20 > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=20 >=20 > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On= =20 > Behalf Of Yvon Cournoyer=20 > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:29 AM=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] INJECTION OIL IN FUEL=20 >=20 > My engine is a 1986 13B with 88 hrs since remanufacture.=20 > I fly a Zenair Zenith with a cogbelt PSRU and a Warp Drive 3-blades prop= =20 > and this engine never runs above 5700 rpm=20 > When I installed this engine in my Zenith I removed the metering oil=20 > pump and have been using two stroke injection oil mixed in the=20 > automobile fuel ( 87 octane gasoline)=20 > At first I used a volume mix of 128:1 gas to oil and soon noticed an=20 > increase of engine lubricating oil volume in the oil pan=20 > I have gradually reduced the volume mix of gas to oil to 140:1 but there= =20 > is still a slight increase of engine lubricating oil in the pan.=20 > Also a local mechanic has mentionned that the two stroke injection oil=20 > is degrading the 20W-50 engine oil.=20 > How much can I reduce the volume mix of gas to oil ?=20 > Please advise=20 > Yvon=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub:=20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >=20 > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signat= ure=20 > database 3267 (20080714) __________=20 >=20 > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=20 >=20 > http://www.eset.com=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signat= ure=20 > database 3267 (20080714) __________=20 >=20 > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=20 >=20 > http://www.eset.com=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html=20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16660_1247554029_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16660_1247554029_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16660_1247554029_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Al,
  The increase in power is probably the result of the engine seal= s (most important the
apex seals) breaking in.............What seals did you replace when yo= u built up your
20B ?..............The power increase after several hours of hard runn= ing (racing or
flying in our case) has been commented on before by Lynn Hanover and T= racy.....
  My previous post stated that the rotor oil seals scraped the ro= tor which is not
true............They scrape the side housings...............
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "= Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: INJECTION = OIL IN FUEL
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:28:02 +0000

Kelly;

 = ;

That was my thought= also; although I=E2=80=99d not like to think that the side seals in my eng= ine are not too good after only 150 hours.  I=E2=80=99m thinking it co= uld also be influenced by engine coolant temp =E2=80=93 my cruise temp was = running down around 140F at the time I was seeing fairly rapid buildup of 2= -stroke oil in the pan.  Cooler side housing temp; more of the oil con= densing there, maybe?

 = ;

Would poor side sea= ls also result in loss of power?  My engine power has improved slightl= y over the past couple years.

 = ;

Al G<= /P>

 = ;

-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: Rotary m= otors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:08 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
= Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IN= JECTION OIL IN FUEL

 

Group,

    One other= opinion on this subject............The condition of the rotor oil side sea= ls and their

respective "O" rings probabl= y is a factor (along with the amount of 2 cycle oil used per gal of<= /FONT>

fuel) that determines how mu= ch 2 cycle oil ends up in the sump...........These seals essentially=

scrape the sides of the roto= rs and if the seals are worn past maximum or the "O" rings are

heat hardened they will let = more fuel mix oil past them into the sump............IMHO

=

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"= _RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


 

-------------- Original mess= age from "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>: --------------

> Yvon, I don't know the minimum, but I used to have the same = problem. I
> would have to drain 1/2 cup of crankcase oil after abou= t 10 hours of flight.
> So I started reducing the amount of 2 cycle = oil. I have flow for the last
> three years mixing 3/4 oz of 2-cycle= oil to one gallon (US) of fuel with no
> apparent ill effects on th= e engine and I am no longer accumulating 2 cycle
> oil in the oil pa= n.
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powe= red
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.= com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://ww= w.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW <= BR>>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
&g= t;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motor= s in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Yv= on Cournoyer
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] INJECTION OIL IN FUEL =
>
> My engine is a 1986 13B with 88 hrs since remanufacture. =
> I fly a Zenair Zenith with a cogbelt PSRU and a Warp Drive 3-blade= s prop
> and this engine never runs above 5700 rpm
> When I i= nstalled this engine in my Zenith I removed the metering oil
> pump = and have been using two stroke injection oil mixed in the
> automobi= le fuel ( 87 octane gasoline)
> At first I used a volume mix of 128:= 1 gas to oil and soon noticed an
> increase of engine lubricating oi= l volume in the oil pan
> I have gradually reduced the volume mix of= gas to oil to 140:1 but there
> is still a slight increase of engin= e lubricating oil in the pan.
> Also a local mechanic has mentionned= that the two stroke injection oil
> is degrading the 20W-50 engine = oil.
> How much can I reduce the volume mix of gas to oil ?
>= Please advise
> Yvon
>
>
> --
> Homepag= e: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> _______= ___ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
&= gt; database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was c= hecked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
&= gt;
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antiv= irus, version of virus signature
> database 3267 (20080714) ________= __
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
&= gt;
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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