X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3740179 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:59:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090630165914326.WREH19903@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:59:14 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: Re: Below staging ... .. Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:59:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C9F982.96AFAD10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acn5nUgBALCowxpPTui1S4TeYoCxkwAAnQsQ In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090630165914326.WREH19903@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C9F982.96AFAD10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C9F982.96AFAD10" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C9F982.96AFAD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff does make it clearer - the EC2 will not physically turn on or provide power to your secondary "disable" switch if your primary switch it turned off (at least I've never seen the tiny hand come out and do so {:>). OK here is what happens when you start out with both primary and secondary "disable" switches ON - providing power to both sets of injectors. When the EC2/3 is operating below the staging point, then normally the EC2 grounding/activation "pulse" is sent only to the primary injectors. Once you increase manifold pressure past the staging point, the EC2 halves the pulse duration and activates the secondary injectors thereby doubling the number of injectors but cutting their fuel flow in half. So your fuel flow is the same (or should be ) both sides of the staging point immediately upon staging. The EC2 has doubled the number of injectors turned on - but halved their fuel flow leaving you with the same fuel flow both sides of the staging point (ideally {:>)). Did I just repeat myself? Another way of looking at it, is when below the staging point (idle low rpm) the number of injectors are reduced from 4 to 2 (except for the three rotor guys, of course). So the EC2 then doubles the on-time duration to the remaining two active injectors to make up for the reduction in the number of injectors from 4 to 2. (Doubling the on-time duration is also something the cold start function also does - test on this later). So lets take you back below the staging point, you are operating on the primary injectors. You decide to turn off the primary injectors (leaving the secondary injectors on). When you turn off either set of injectors using the "disable" switch, you are also triggering the "Cold Start" function by grounding it (provided once again you wired it as Tracy recommended) With the cold start function activated, the EC2 will attempt to ground (activate) both pairs of injectors (whether they have power or not) as well as doubling the "pluse" duration. Since there is no power to the primary injectors (you turned them off - remember), the primary injectors can not squirt any fuel in - but, since the secondary injectors can and do - they continue to provide power to the engine even below the staging point. Recall the cold start function also doubles the pulse width at the same time. That is at least part of the reason why staging can be somewhat more difficult to sort out if your primary and secondary injectors have a large different in flow rate. This ALL assumes you have wired the injectors as Tracy specifies. Now if both primary and secondary injectors both have power and you turn on the cold start switch on the control panel - then the EC2 will double the on-time for both pari and you can very quickly flood your engine. So DON"T do that! It can get confusing for us mortals, but fortunately the EC2 always remembers. Hope this helps Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Below staging ... was Re: More progress, more questions.... I assume what Bill and Ed mean here is: If you disable the primary injectors, the secondary injectors (if enabled) will remain operable, even below the staging point - they won't be automatically turned on. This is not actually mentioned in the manual, though does make sense. I do not have the DPDT switches but rather have separate PRI and SEC power switches plus the Cold Start switch. To test the above feature (which I have not) I would have to first ensure that the Cold Start switch is ON . right now if I disable the PRI-only below staging point, my engine quits. Jeff Message Header Undecoded Message ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C9F982.96AFAD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff does make it clearer – = the EC2 will not physically turn on or provide power to your secondary = “disable” switch if your primary switch it turned off (at least I’ve never = seen the tiny hand come out and do so {:>).  =

OK here is what happens when you start out with both primary and secondary = “disable” switches ON – providing power to both sets of = injectors.

When the EC2/3 is operating below the = staging point, then normally the EC2 grounding/activation =   “pulse” is sent only to the primary injectors.  Once you increase manifold pressure past the staging point, the EC2 halves the pulse duration and = activates  the secondary injectors thereby doubling the number of injectors = but cutting their fuel flow in half.   So your fuel flow is the = same (or should be ) both sides of the staging point immediately upon = staging.  The EC2 has  doubled the number of injectors turned on - but halved = their fuel flow leaving you with the same fuel flow both sides of the staging point (ideally {:>)). Did I just repeat = myself?

 Another way of looking at it, is = when below the staging point (idle low rpm)  the number of injectors are = reduced from 4 to 2 (except for the three rotor guys, of course).  So  the = EC2 then doubles the on-time duration to the remaining two active injectors to = make up for the reduction in the number of injectors from 4 to 2.  = (Doubling the on-time duration is also something the cold start function also =  does – test on this later).

So lets take you back below the staging = point, you are operating on the primary injectors.  You decide to turn off = the primary injectors (leaving the secondary injectors on).  When you = turn off either set of injectors using the “disable” switch, =  you are also triggering  the “Cold Start” function by grounding = it (provided once again you wired it as Tracy recommended)

With the cold start function activated, = the EC2 will attempt to ground (activate) both pairs of injectors (whether they have = power or not) as well as doubling the “pluse” duration.  = Since there is no power to the primary injectors (you turned them off - remember), = the primary injectors can not squirt any fuel in – but, since the = secondary injectors can and do - they continue to provide power to the engine even = below the staging point.   Recall the cold start function also = doubles the pulse width at the same time.   That is at least part of the = reason why staging can be somewhat more difficult to sort out if your primary = and secondary injectors have a large different in flow rate.  This ALL = assumes you have wired the injectors as Tracy specifies.

Now if both primary and secondary = injectors both have power  and you turn on the cold start switch on the control panel = – then the EC2 will double the on-time for both pari and you can very = quickly flood your engine.  So DON”T do = that!

It can get confusing for us mortals, but fortunately the EC2 always remembers.

Hope this = helps

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff = Whaley
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, = 2009 12:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Below staging ... was Re: More progress, more = questions....

 

I assume = what Bill and Ed mean here is: If you disable the primary injectors, the = secondary injectors (if enabled) will remain operable, even below the staging = point – they won’t be automatically turned on. This is not = actually mentioned in the manual, though does make = sense.

 <= /o:p>

I do = not have the DPDT switches but rather have separate PRI and SEC power = switches plus the Cold Start switch.

To test = the above feature (which I have not) I would have to first ensure that = the Cold Start switch is ON … right now if I disable the PRI-only below staging point, my engine quits.

Jeff

 <= /o:p>

 

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of = virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message = was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C9F982.96AFAD10-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C9F982.96AFAD10 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAINgDxCRw4 EAC+fwgTIjT4DwCAAwIXHlSYkKHDhxEZUpTYEONEjRstOoR4ECRFkSQ5bux4saXDgAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C9F982.96AFAD10 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAIPgDxCRw4 EAC+fwcQKjxgMCHDhAD+GUQYEcDDhhIzVjwIkSJDfA8zQjxYUWRDixVHmnSI0aHCiS5ZAphJs2ZA ADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C9F982.96AFAD10--