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From: "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-3735262@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: More progress, more questions....
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:59:02 -0700
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Chris,

 I disagree with the "knowledgeable engineering type" who seems to think the 
root issue is the rotary engine. I dont think there's anyway you could build 
a simpler or more bulletproof engine. The guy is simply not as knowledgeable 
as he thinks he is.

 On the other hand, there are an awful lot of complex systems supporting a 
rotary installation. Intake, exhaust, cooling, electronics, PSRU, etc... 
Since there is no plug and play installation kit, there's a wide variation 
in installation quality. Some doing this are engineers and their 
installations demonstrate this - look at Al's. Some of us are not - I'm an 
electronics tech, not an engineer and freely admit it. I think my 
installation is pretty well thought out but admit that many aspects are 
"eyeball engineered" and it shows.

 In my personal opinion, if you are going with an alternative engine, this 
is the way to do it rather than the plug and play route. I've yet to see a 
plug and play engine swap that really was. Look at the Eggenfellner 
Subarus - all of his customers are beta testers, but they went in thinking 
they were going with something that would just bolt on and work. When it 
doesnt they frequently dont have the knowledge or skill to resolve the 
issues. Going the route we've gone forces you to become very knowledgeable 
about all of the engine support systems. Thats supposed to be what this 
experimental thing is all about.

 I know it can be pretty frustrating and discouraging. I've had a fair 
amount of that myself, though not compared to some. I guarantee you this. 
Stick with it and you will eventually resolve the issues and you'll know far 
more about the engineering of your powerplant than most builders/pilots. The 
"knowledgeable engineering type" has already been proven wrong by the guys 
ahead of us who have been successfully flying their rotaries for years.

Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:08 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More progress, more questions....


> Chris,
> Why don't you share the rotary detractors concerns with us.  There seems 
> to
> be nothing easy about getting an alternative engine set up to fly.  It is
> not a plug and play installation.  It is easy to get discouraged.  That 
> has
> happened to several folks on this list.  You will get there.  I hope you
> don't give up.
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Barber
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:51 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More progress, more questions....
>
> Bill,
>
> I think you are correct about the tach and the secondaries.  I had it do 
> it
> again today when I was running only the secondaries.  The rpm was about 
> 2000
> revolutions faster when I shut off the primaries.
>
> Today was spent replacing the 20 awg with the 16 awg that is mentioned in
> the manual.  I also cleaned up some other wire issues resulting from me
> separating the coil/injector wires from the EC2/EM2 wires.
>
> Ed,
>
> Thanks, seems you nailed it when you mentioned my oxygen sensor not being
> grounded properly causing the mixture bar to be erratic, now it is amazing
> how sensitive it seems. You were correct about a gasket that may be
> preventing a proper ground by the exhaust manifold, so I ran a wire 
> clamped
> the the sensor to the ground block.
>
> I still feel progress is being made, but I still seemed to be plagued by
> inconsistencies.  Tonight, I was tuning at lower settings and things seems
> to be going as expected.  I decided to ramp up the power and when I did 
> the
> engine started sputtering and not developing power above about 3400 rmp.
> Came back to idle and it smoothed out, added power and more stumbles. 
> Damn.
> I shut it down, restarted and it had gone away.  I went to WOT and the 
> power
> came on amazingly up to about 6200 rpm...and it felt like it.  Since my
> temps were doing ok, I  kept it at full power for about 20 seconds or so
> when the rpm dropped about 400 rpm to 5800.
> I did nothing to cause the change.  I then started to fiddle with the
> mixture but it did not make a difference in bringing the power back.
> Hmmmm? Shut down, restarted and it did the same thing. Hmmm? Hmmmm?
>
> Also, twice I had the engine want to stall when I cut the primaries.  A 
> shut
> down and restart had it come back on line again.  Sigh, I cannot even 
> count
> how many times I have rechecked connections and wires.
>
> I am having continued problems with my charging system, so I will try to
> focus on this for now as it could be a base cause of some of these 
> concerns.
> Al, spotted my low volts and I was aware of it but focusing on other 
> issues
> until my EE buddy can come out.  What he will be able to detect and help
> correct would likely take me weeks, if I ever found it....since I have not
> as of yet.
>
> Most of today was spent with mundane issues (like better wire runs)  and
> folks stopping by the hangar.  Also, having to try to put in perspective a
> very well educated engineering type from another list who emailed me and
> trashed the rotary and the EC2, in what I believe a well meaning, but 
> very,
> very harsh manner.  I value the concern and knowledge however, he blamed 
> my
> problems on the rotary etc, while I have seen most my issues being 
> something
> that could have happened with what ever engine I was learning about.  It
> shook me in its tone and message, even if I do not agree....however, since 
> I
> do not wish to have my head in the sand, I do not take a well educated
> persons mindful opinion lightly.
>
> As always guys, thanks for reading and  putting your minds together for 
> the
> common good.
>
> All the best,
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>
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