X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3735312 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:43:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.187; envelope-from=fluffysheap@gmail.com Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so1512089pxi.7 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:43:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=WO524AGIO7Yy1QgETqHdDfhwAOPj/bWxU2eSgT0wIz8=; b=G9KxAq9UDq9CKjeBFxZCkSQtkBe8fY1ZBxk4EG7rvQBhnJ9Qt9TUxs3HFuk4Q4ORSm 8+DsT21n3i3cDivhkUVStMMN/dgjiIT6Sp7RJo+4VjO3gz322mHiEt0NlhxvIKPYzOhm m+ZFr0saYtLErW+LALXywf2Oxa0jdXhbz24PM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Mp/cEMINABo3NImcZQG/tY0+1troTgpnBEhn1MwkP1Wsqwy2lB/CjGRVj6MjgAZTdo 8sXVX9/moOIJfitZvS+VlDcpPEF473JLQOAdWXNvysrO9fY0LuTQF7iB4kK/0F92TWaj nZ2LCBju3a8vJrc5Eq5MesZiPdMybjKHGkCEg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.22.1 with SMTP id z1mr384823rvi.186.1246196598590; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:43:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:43:18 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: More progress, more questions.... From: William Wilson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd50a74944d81046d68c105 --000e0cd50a74944d81046d68c105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KEIK in Erie, just north of Denver, is supposed to have mogas for sale at the airport. Airnav says their phone number is 303-926-2870, call them to make sure. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Chris, > > I'm sure that we've all met those that love to trash anything except a > certified powerplant. However, I had a conversation with a fellow builder > once who commented that as experimeters, we were both out on the limb, only > that I was a little further out than him. We all have to choose for > ourselves how far out on the limb we feel comfortable. Makes sense, if you > accept the premis that a Lycoming is a more reliable powerplant than a > rotary, which I don't. I had an experience early in my flying career where > we blew a jug off an O-200 and just barely made it back to the airport > before the thing quit (prop stopped as we flared). So, I don't share the > same faith as the "true believers". For me, deciding to use a rotary engine > was a pretty easy one. > > BTW, as a reminder, I still have a mangled ball of aluminum from that O-200 > that used to be a piston. Whenever a "true believer" starts badmouthing the > rotary, I show them my souvenir from my previous experience with a certified > engine. > > On a side note, the wife and I flew our 3-rotor Lancair from Austin to > Denver on Saturday. The only problem has been finding mogas. That's a > 688nm trip, by far the longest trip we've taken to date. Anyone in the > Denver area that would like to meet up, give me a call on my cell > (512/497-3046). We'll be heading back to the heat on 7/5/09, weather > permitting. > > Mark S. > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 3:51 AM, Christopher Barber < > CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote: > >> > > ill, >> >> I think you are correct about the tach and the secondaries. I had it do >> it again today when I was running only the secondaries. The rpm was about >> 2000 revolutions faster when I shut off the primaries. >> >> Today was spent replacing the 20 awg with the 16 awg that is mentioned in >> the manual. I also cleaned up some other wire issues resulting from me >> separating the coil/injector wires from the EC2/EM2 wires. >> >> Ed, >> >> Thanks, seems you nailed it when you mentioned my oxygen sensor not being >> grounded properly causing the mixture bar to be erratic, now it is amazing >> how sensitive it seems. You were correct about a gasket that may be >> preventing a proper ground by the exhaust manifold, so I ran a wire clamped >> the the sensor to the ground block. >> >> I still feel progress is being made, but I still seemed to be plagued by >> inconsistencies. Tonight, I was tuning at lower settings and things seems >> to be going as expected. I decided to ramp up the power and when I did the >> engine started sputtering and not developing power above about 3400 rmp. >> Came back to idle and it smoothed out, added power and more stumbles. >> Damn. I shut it down, restarted and it had gone away. I went to WOT and >> the power came on amazingly up to about 6200 rpm...and it felt like it. >> Since my temps were doing ok, I kept it at full power for about 20 seconds >> or so when the rpm dropped about 400 rpm to 5800. I did nothing to cause >> the change. I then started to fiddle with the mixture but it did not make a >> difference in bringing the power back. Hmmmm? Shut down, restarted and it >> did the same thing. Hmmm? Hmmmm? >> >> Also, twice I had the engine want to stall when I cut the primaries. A >> shut down and restart had it come back on line again. Sigh, I cannot even >> count how many times I have rechecked connections and wires. >> >> I am having continued problems with my charging system, so I will try to >> focus on this for now as it could be a base cause of some of these concerns. >> Al, spotted my low volts and I was aware of it but focusing on other issues >> until my EE buddy can come out. What he will be able to detect and help >> correct would likely take me weeks, if I ever found it....since I have not >> as of yet. >> >> Most of today was spent with mundane issues (like better wire runs) and >> folks stopping by the hangar. Also, having to try to put in perspective a >> very well educated engineering type from another list who emailed me and >> trashed the rotary and the EC2, in what I believe a well meaning, but very, >> very harsh manner. I value the concern and knowledge however, he blamed my >> problems on the rotary etc, while I have seen most my issues being something >> that could have happened with what ever engine I was learning about. It >> shook me in its tone and message, even if I do not agree....however, since I >> do not wish to have my head in the sand, I do not take a well educated >> persons mindful opinion lightly. >> >> As always guys, thanks for reading and putting your minds together for >> the common good. >> >> All the best, >> >> Chris >> >> >> >>> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > --000e0cd50a74944d81046d68c105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KEIK in Erie, just north of Denver, is supposed to have mogas for sale at t= he airport.=A0 Airnav says their phone number is 303-926-2870, call them to= make sure.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:34 = AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Chris,
=A0
I'm sure that we've all met those that love to trash anything = except a certified powerplant.=A0 However, I had a conversation with a fell= ow=A0builder once who commented that as experimeters, we were both out on t= he limb, only that I was a little further out than=A0him. We all have to ch= oose for ourselves how far out on the limb we feel comfortable.=A0 Makes se= nse, if you accept the premis that a=A0Lycoming is a more reliable powerpla= nt than a rotary, which I don't.=A0=A0I had an experience early in my f= lying career where we blew a jug off an O-200 and just barely made it back = to the airport before the thing quit (prop stopped as we flared).=A0 So, I = don't share the same=A0faith as the "true believers".=A0 For = me,=A0deciding to use a rotary engine was a=A0pretty easy one.=A0

BTW,=A0as a reminder, I still have=A0a mangled ball of aluminum from th= at O-200 that used to be a piston.=A0 Whenever a "true believer"= =A0starts badmouthing the rotary, I show them my souvenir from my previous = experience with a certified engine.=A0
=A0
On a side note, the wife and I flew our 3-rotor Lancair from Austin to= Denver on Saturday.=A0 The only problem has been finding mogas.=A0 That= 9;s a 688nm trip, by far the longest trip we've taken to date.=A0 Anyon= e in the Denver area that would like to meet up, give me a call on my cell = (512/497-3046).=A0 We'll be heading back to the heat on 7/5/09, weather= permitting.
=A0
Mark S.
=A0
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 3:51 AM, Christopher Bar= ber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
=A0
ill,=

I think you are correct about the tach and the secondaries. =A0I ha= d it do it again today when I was running only the secondaries. =A0The rpm = was about 2000 revolutions faster when I shut off the primaries.

Today was spent replacing the 20 awg with the 16 awg that is mentioned = in the manual. =A0I also cleaned up some other wire issues resulting from m= e separating the coil/injector wires from the EC2/EM2 wires.

Ed,

Thanks, seems you nailed it when you mentioned my oxygen sensor not bei= ng grounded properly causing the mixture bar to be erratic, now it is amazi= ng how sensitive it seems. You were correct about a gasket that may be prev= enting a proper ground by the exhaust manifold, so I ran a wire clamped the= the sensor to the ground block.

I still feel progress is being made, but I still seemed to be plagued b= y inconsistencies. =A0Tonight, I was tuning at lower settings and things se= ems to be going as expected. =A0I decided to ramp up the power and when I d= id the engine started sputtering and not developing power above about 3400 = rmp. =A0Came back to idle and it smoothed out, added power and more stumble= s. =A0Damn. =A0I shut it down, restarted and it had gone away. =A0I went to= WOT and the power came on amazingly up to about 6200 rpm...and it felt lik= e it. =A0Since my temps were doing ok, I =A0kept it at full power for about= 20 seconds or so when the rpm dropped about 400 rpm to 5800. =A0I did noth= ing to cause the change. =A0I then started to fiddle with the mixture but i= t did not make a difference in bringing the power back. =A0Hmmmm? Shut down= , restarted and it did the same thing. Hmmm? Hmmmm?

Also, twice I had the engine want to stall when I cut the primaries. = =A0A shut down and restart had it come back on line again. =A0Sigh, I canno= t even count how many times I have rechecked connections and wires.

= I am having continued problems with my charging system, so I will try to fo= cus on this for now as it could be a base cause of some of these concerns. = =A0Al, spotted my low volts and I was aware of it but focusing on other iss= ues until my EE buddy can come out. =A0What he will be able to detect and h= elp correct would likely take me weeks, if I ever found it....since I have = not as of yet.

Most of today was spent with mundane issues (like better wire runs) =A0= and folks stopping by the hangar. =A0Also, having to try to put in perspect= ive a very well educated engineering type from another list who emailed me = and trashed the rotary and the EC2, in what I believe a well meaning, but v= ery, very harsh manner. =A0I value the concern and knowledge however, he bl= amed my problems on the rotary etc, while I have seen most my issues being = something that could have happened with what ever engine I was learning abo= ut. =A0It shook me in its tone and message, even if I do not agree....howev= er, since I do not wish to have my head in the sand, I do not take a well e= ducated persons mindful opinion lightly.

As always guys, thanks for reading and =A0putting your minds together f= or the common good.

All the best,

Chris



=
--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html


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