X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f211.google.com ([209.85.218.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3735301 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:35:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.211; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1094875bwz.19 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:34:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GQdFPHUAFIH6arNXqWHVigT+BE5r5Yak9uY3IVER+5o=; b=pugRU/IeB5rF2hSDJE2urrBinPaz3zueKboLE1Qkit7nSOLSY7KK2oW4F/olnCWf+E vglwGDYX9fxTu0cbP8xSIcA5wZJMXGmUnGuaM2CoSIwEW8FuhNUX5EuJBzHbvdRH+29+ vAo0N1rc+GcUBYa7sM4R1IglMSTcjQvqRpBuk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=nzkDgyT2QNPjYqrW3p/pir0z5hiCgF4WnKB7t9kpuc++WsH8ObEjwbDOTW6Fd2VFaN PyAkHNE97IVSTP1NYJ7npXkSBwJrstkttAaac0DdPeFwX5AIU+e5lHg2dMjalFtQ0R0X wuXRx95gDhwvEZFX8dwc6R1Q6juRLKRK14NfE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.60.135 with SMTP id p7mr2579464bkh.83.1246196097975; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:34:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:34:57 -0500 Message-ID: <5cf132c0906280634oe4fc8b0m99257a150ead0504@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: More progress, more questions.... From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b451bd8684046d68a339 --001636c5b451bd8684046d68a339 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, I'm sure that we've all met those that love to trash anything except a certified powerplant. However, I had a conversation with a fellow builder once who commented that as experimeters, we were both out on the limb, only that I was a little further out than him. We all have to choose for ourselves how far out on the limb we feel comfortable. Makes sense, if you accept the premis that a Lycoming is a more reliable powerplant than a rotary, which I don't. I had an experience early in my flying career where we blew a jug off an O-200 and just barely made it back to the airport before the thing quit (prop stopped as we flared). So, I don't share the same faith as the "true believers". For me, deciding to use a rotary engine was a pretty easy one. BTW, as a reminder, I still have a mangled ball of aluminum from that O-200 that used to be a piston. Whenever a "true believer" starts badmouthing the rotary, I show them my souvenir from my previous experience with a certified engine. On a side note, the wife and I flew our 3-rotor Lancair from Austin to Denver on Saturday. The only problem has been finding mogas. That's a 688nm trip, by far the longest trip we've taken to date. Anyone in the Denver area that would like to meet up, give me a call on my cell (512/497-3046). We'll be heading back to the heat on 7/5/09, weather permitting. Mark S. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 3:51 AM, Christopher Barber < CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote: > ill, > > I think you are correct about the tach and the secondaries. I had it do it > again today when I was running only the secondaries. The rpm was about 2000 > revolutions faster when I shut off the primaries. > > Today was spent replacing the 20 awg with the 16 awg that is mentioned in > the manual. I also cleaned up some other wire issues resulting from me > separating the coil/injector wires from the EC2/EM2 wires. > > Ed, > > Thanks, seems you nailed it when you mentioned my oxygen sensor not being > grounded properly causing the mixture bar to be erratic, now it is amazing > how sensitive it seems. You were correct about a gasket that may be > preventing a proper ground by the exhaust manifold, so I ran a wire clamped > the the sensor to the ground block. > > I still feel progress is being made, but I still seemed to be plagued by > inconsistencies. Tonight, I was tuning at lower settings and things seems > to be going as expected. I decided to ramp up the power and when I did the > engine started sputtering and not developing power above about 3400 rmp. > Came back to idle and it smoothed out, added power and more stumbles. > Damn. I shut it down, restarted and it had gone away. I went to WOT and > the power came on amazingly up to about 6200 rpm...and it felt like it. > Since my temps were doing ok, I kept it at full power for about 20 seconds > or so when the rpm dropped about 400 rpm to 5800. I did nothing to cause > the change. I then started to fiddle with the mixture but it did not make a > difference in bringing the power back. Hmmmm? Shut down, restarted and it > did the same thing. Hmmm? Hmmmm? > > Also, twice I had the engine want to stall when I cut the primaries. A > shut down and restart had it come back on line again. Sigh, I cannot even > count how many times I have rechecked connections and wires. > > I am having continued problems with my charging system, so I will try to > focus on this for now as it could be a base cause of some of these concerns. > Al, spotted my low volts and I was aware of it but focusing on other issues > until my EE buddy can come out. What he will be able to detect and help > correct would likely take me weeks, if I ever found it....since I have not > as of yet. > > Most of today was spent with mundane issues (like better wire runs) and > folks stopping by the hangar. Also, having to try to put in perspective a > very well educated engineering type from another list who emailed me and > trashed the rotary and the EC2, in what I believe a well meaning, but very, > very harsh manner. I value the concern and knowledge however, he blamed my > problems on the rotary etc, while I have seen most my issues being something > that could have happened with what ever engine I was learning about. It > shook me in its tone and message, even if I do not agree....however, since I > do not wish to have my head in the sand, I do not take a well educated > persons mindful opinion lightly. > > As always guys, thanks for reading and putting your minds together for the > common good. > > All the best, > > Chris > > > >> > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --001636c5b451bd8684046d68a339 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
=A0
I'm sure that we've all met those that love to trash anything = except a certified powerplant.=A0 However, I had a conversation with a fell= ow=A0builder once who commented that as experimeters, we were both out on t= he limb, only that I was a little further out than=A0him. We all have to ch= oose for ourselves how far out on the limb we feel comfortable.=A0 Makes se= nse, if you accept the premis that a=A0Lycoming is a more reliable powerpla= nt than a rotary, which I don't.=A0=A0I had an experience early in my f= lying career where we blew a jug off an O-200 and just barely made it back = to the airport before the thing quit (prop stopped as we flared).=A0 So, I = don't share the same=A0faith as the "true believers".=A0 For = me,=A0deciding to use a rotary engine was a=A0pretty easy one.=A0

BTW,=A0as a reminder, I still have=A0a mangled ball of aluminum from th= at O-200 that used to be a piston.=A0 Whenever a "true believer"= =A0starts badmouthing the rotary, I show them my souvenir from my previous = experience with a certified engine.=A0
=A0
On a side note, the wife and I flew our 3-rotor Lancair from Austin to= Denver on Saturday.=A0 The only problem has been finding mogas.=A0 That= 9;s a 688nm trip, by far the longest trip we've taken to date.=A0 Anyon= e in the Denver area that would like to meet up, give me a call on my cell = (512/497-3046).=A0 We'll be heading back to the heat on 7/5/09, weather= permitting.
=A0
Mark S.
=A0
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 3:51 AM, Christopher Bar= ber <CBar= ber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
=A0
ill,

I think= you are correct about the tach and the secondaries. =A0I had it do it agai= n today when I was running only the secondaries. =A0The rpm was about 2000 = revolutions faster when I shut off the primaries.

Today was spent replacing the 20 awg with the 16 awg that is mentioned = in the manual. =A0I also cleaned up some other wire issues resulting from m= e separating the coil/injector wires from the EC2/EM2 wires.

Ed,

Thanks, seems you nailed it when you mentioned my oxygen sensor not bei= ng grounded properly causing the mixture bar to be erratic, now it is amazi= ng how sensitive it seems. You were correct about a gasket that may be prev= enting a proper ground by the exhaust manifold, so I ran a wire clamped the= the sensor to the ground block.

I still feel progress is being made, but I still seemed to be plagued b= y inconsistencies. =A0Tonight, I was tuning at lower settings and things se= ems to be going as expected. =A0I decided to ramp up the power and when I d= id the engine started sputtering and not developing power above about 3400 = rmp. =A0Came back to idle and it smoothed out, added power and more stumble= s. =A0Damn. =A0I shut it down, restarted and it had gone away. =A0I went to= WOT and the power came on amazingly up to about 6200 rpm...and it felt lik= e it. =A0Since my temps were doing ok, I =A0kept it at full power for about= 20 seconds or so when the rpm dropped about 400 rpm to 5800. =A0I did noth= ing to cause the change. =A0I then started to fiddle with the mixture but i= t did not make a difference in bringing the power back. =A0Hmmmm? Shut down= , restarted and it did the same thing. Hmmm? Hmmmm?

Also, twice I had the engine want to stall when I cut the primaries. = =A0A shut down and restart had it come back on line again. =A0Sigh, I canno= t even count how many times I have rechecked connections and wires.

= I am having continued problems with my charging system, so I will try to fo= cus on this for now as it could be a base cause of some of these concerns. = =A0Al, spotted my low volts and I was aware of it but focusing on other iss= ues until my EE buddy can come out. =A0What he will be able to detect and h= elp correct would likely take me weeks, if I ever found it....since I have = not as of yet.

Most of today was spent with mundane issues (like better wire runs) =A0= and folks stopping by the hangar. =A0Also, having to try to put in perspect= ive a very well educated engineering type from another list who emailed me = and trashed the rotary and the EC2, in what I believe a well meaning, but v= ery, very harsh manner. =A0I value the concern and knowledge however, he bl= amed my problems on the rotary etc, while I have seen most my issues being = something that could have happened with what ever engine I was learning abo= ut. =A0It shook me in its tone and message, even if I do not agree....howev= er, since I do not wish to have my head in the sand, I do not take a well e= ducated persons mindful opinion lightly.

As always guys, thanks for reading and =A0putting your minds together f= or the common good.

All the best,

Chris




--
Homep= age: =A0http://www.= flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

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