X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com ([209.85.218.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3732230 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:09:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.226; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so1504215bwz.19 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:08:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=FVROMLC2weq9Le6nOmZe/IBGh8tlx+THwx15AHOXD9k=; b=GIagVXrdJlFV1UpVEBNJhI+V19mVhhocIGyEkFDIxg9x7bHOjTmyU6m/4YhFiXEnp6 hNeDu8z+WQR3Rb1rDb8sKa1W5TIyEF6rASZwg0Ynuhl6c8cMUUhqkNbSX+U/ljsVJnXC WXtun1Ei0yIoMVPK7irqmVwLe9FUFF4xK15PI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=GtObFJD1j1VOWa0VeKwvprGpQSOY7HiGBp1I1rE4DqIb7p+ue/yf/BF4P99kpfw/ug 2W/D1pO0fcwi5COJ2JlcvQ6SGAAejempx7q/J5P+KPsN7SsFhoONL9h+WyxLBIKrTgtW uTC9Hbg2q8WoHZ6It4qK05WQXMftZu2DTGm3o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.76.129 with SMTP id c1mr2448161bkk.9.1245931731624; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:08:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:08:51 -0500 Message-ID: <5cf132c0906250508n1626a0cck62645cdb4ecf25e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Auto Tune vice Max Power???: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progress...not sure how to act? From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636458d304721ed046d2b1686 --001636458d304721ed046d2b1686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ED, Isn't that a pretty big assumption to expect the fuel flow to be calibrated and accurate considering that he hasn't yet flown and just switched to larger injectors? I've been flying for two years and I'm not done tweaking the fuel flow calibration on my EM-2. If that is in fact the case, isn't everything else a moot point? Mark S. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Chris, > > IF your fuel flow is calibrated and accurate a fuel flow of 11 gph at 5870 > rpm and 29" Hg, that would indicate an air/fuel ratio of around 16:1. Now, > I am not familiar with Tracy's auto tune function (no EM2), so don't know > if > it's trying to achieve a 14.7:1 Stoichiometric ratio or not - but, my > calculations indicates your engine may have been running a bit lean for > best > power. > > For best power you want an air/fuel ratio of around 12.65:1. If you have > that A/F ratio then your 5870 rpm at WOT and 29"Hg would give you around > 155 > HP with a fuel flow of around 14.4 gph. > > I don't know if you can, but IF you can, I would turn off/disable the auto > tune feature and try just manually adjusting your fuel mixture knob to give > you a richer A/F and see what that gives you. I could be wrong, but my > understanding is that the auto tune is more for tuning for economy rather > than max power. > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Christopher Barber > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:43 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progress...not sure how to act? > > I went out tonight and checked for leaks and could not find any, but you > are right, it is likely idling too high. I will likely remove the > suspect part of the manifold and give it a more diligent inspection. > The Mistral intake is two major parts. The part that is bolted onto the > engine has nothing that could leak. It is connected to the throttle > body portion by aluminum tubes. The throttle body portion has a couple > of places that could leak. That being said, I was intense in my method > to seal the the openings that Mistral provided to attached various hoses > that I am not using. However, I will verify. > > I did verify that the throttle is closing all the way, so I got some > more investigating to do. > > In a similar note and perhaps this should be more directed at Tracy but > how does the EM2 determine Horsepower and Percent of power. Tonight > when I cranked the power to full at about 5870 rpm's I was looking at a > fuel flow of about 11 gph (which if I read previous post correctly is > low) and a HP of about 93 which indicated 50% power. Now, I was at FULL > power, but is was indicating 93 HP and 50% power. Whats up with that? > OH OH OH, the MP was showing 29. (for once I remembered to look ) > > I did learn something tonight. If I forget to turn on the fan while > sitting on the ramp at 86 degree Houston night, my temps shoot up much > faster. > > I do think my staging point is either 15 or 15.5 by looking at the > asterisk coming on and off while near idle. I have had my EC2 since > 2005 and even though Tracy has updated it, I think the staging is the same. > > I am still working out EC2 issues. While it is running much, much > better, it still seems to change subtle elements of the MAP table on its > own. I don't know yet if this is due to my attempt at using Auto Tune > mode or not. It seems when I shut it down at night and come back the > next days, minor difference are present. Not sure why it seems to have a > mind of its own. Of course, getting time to focus on the differences is > difficult. I know, I am preaching to the choir, as we all have time > constraints. > > I hope I am actually making progress > > All the best, > > Chris > > Al Gietzen wrote: > > I meant to note the MP but forgot. IIRC the MP was what I considered a > bit > > high at about 15. Since this is where Tracy has the staging point by > design > > (15 or 15.5 I think) I noticed it > > > > Chris; > > > > I see Map of 10 - 11" at idle. By 15 it's putting out some serious > power. > > Either the throttle isn't closing or you have a pretty serious leak. > > > > I think on the more recent versions Tracy has been setting the default > > staging higher, like 16.5 - 17". > > > > Best, > > > > Al > > > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --001636458d304721ed046d2b1686 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ED,
=A0
Isn't that a pretty big assumption=A0to expect the fuel flow to be= calibrated and accurate considering that he hasn't yet flown and just = switched to larger injectors?=A0 I've been flying for two years and I&#= 39;m not done tweaking=A0the fuel flow calibration on my EM-2.=A0 If that i= s in fact=A0the case, isn't everything else a moot point?=A0
=A0
Mark S.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@c= arolina.rr.com> wrote:
Chris,

IF your fuel flow = is calibrated and accurate a fuel flow of 11 gph at 5870
rpm and 29"= ; Hg, that would indicate an air/fuel ratio of around 16:1. =A0Now,
I am not familiar with Tracy's auto tune function (no EM2), so don'= t know if
it's trying to achieve a 14.7:1 Stoichiometric ratio or no= t - but, my
calculations indicates your engine may have been running a b= it lean for best
power.

For best power you want an air/fuel ratio of around 12.65:1. = =A0If you have
that A/F ratio then your 5870 rpm at WOT and 29"Hg w= ould give you around 155
HP with a fuel flow of around 14.4 gph.

I don't know if you can, but IF you can, I would turn off/disable the a= uto
tune feature and try just manually adjusting your fuel mixture knob = to give
you a richer A/F and see what that gives you. =A0I could be wron= g, but my
understanding is that the auto tune is more for tuning for economy ratherthan max power.

Ed



Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW = Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.and= ersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/=

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW<= /a>

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:4= 3 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progre= ss...not sure how to act?

I went out tonight and checked for leaks a= nd could not find any, but you
are right, it is likely idling too high. = =A0I will likely remove the
suspect part of the manifold and give it a more diligent inspection.
The= Mistral intake is two major parts. =A0The part that is bolted onto the
= engine has nothing that could leak. =A0It is connected to the throttle
b= ody portion by aluminum tubes. =A0The throttle body portion has a couple of places that could leak. =A0That being said, I was intense in my methodto seal the the openings that Mistral provided to attached various hoses<= br>that I am not using. =A0However, I will verify.

I did verify that= the throttle is closing all the way, so I got some
more investigating to do.

In a similar note and perhaps this should = be more directed at Tracy but
how does the EM2 determine Horsepower and = Percent of power. =A0Tonight
when I cranked the power to full at about 5= 870 rpm's I was looking at a
fuel flow of about 11 gph (which if I read previous post correctly is
lo= w) and a HP of about 93 which indicated 50% power. =A0Now, I was at FULLpower, but is was indicating 93 HP and 50% power. =A0Whats up with that? OH OH OH, the MP was showing 29. (for once I remembered to look <g>)<= br>
I did learn something tonight. =A0If I forget to turn on the fan whi= le
sitting on the ramp at 86 degree Houston night, my temps shoot up muc= h
faster.

I do think my staging point is either 15 or 15.5 by looking = at the
asterisk coming on and off while near idle. =A0I have had my EC2 = since
2005 and even though Tracy has updated it, I think the staging is = the same.

I am still working out EC2 issues. =A0While it is running much, muchbetter, it still seems to change subtle elements of the MAP table on itsown. =A0I don't know yet if this is due to my attempt at using Auto T= une
mode or not. =A0It seems when I shut it down at night and come back the
= next days, minor difference are present. Not sure why it seems to have amind of its own. =A0Of course, getting time to focus on the differences is=
difficult. =A0I know, I am preaching to the choir, as we all have time
c= onstraints.

I hope I am actually making progress <g>

Al= l the best,

Chris

Al Gietzen wrote:
> I meant to note t= he MP but forgot. =A0IIRC the MP was what I considered a
bit
> high at about 15. =A0Since this is where Tracy has the staging = point by
design
> (15 or 15.5 I think) I noticed it
>
>= ; Chris;
>
> I see Map of 10 - 11" at idle. =A0By 15 it= 9;s putting out some serious power.
> Either the throttle isn't closing or you have a pretty serious lea= k.
>
> I think on the more recent versions Tracy has been setti= ng =A0the default
> staging higher, like 16.5 - 17".
>
> Best,
>
> Al
>
>
>
> --
> Ho= mepage: =A0http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>

--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:
= http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus sign= ature
database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked= by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of vi= rus signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was= checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archiv= e and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyro= tary/List.html

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