X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3731581 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:38:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.56; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-146-126-115.mco.bellsouth.net[72.146.126.115]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20090624223808H0600fga52e>; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:38:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [72.146.126.115] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis Test[FlyRotary] Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:38:08 -0400 Message-ID: <52DB31B9DA884779B7369E649B2E5B51@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C9F4FA.EBC57F00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acn1GRV4q1xFd/ebT+CqFXD2vWJRbgAArbGA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C9F4FA.EBC57F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, Ed when I said doubling the fuel flow thru the other set of injectors, what I should have said is doubling the pulse width, but I don't think all that other stuff is supposed to be happening. He is getting a doubling of his rpm, hp, fuel flow number, etc. and that on only the one set. Something is cockeyed?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:14 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis Test[FlyRotary] Actually, Bill, (unless Tracy recently changed it), when the cold start it turned on OR one of the injector pair is turned off, the EC2 doubles the pulse duration to the injectors. It also does this when you are running on primaries- before staging. Here is basically what happens - at low rpm (before staging), the primary injectors are on with a pulse duration of X. When the EC2 stages, it of course, brings on two more injectors. So to maintain the same fuel flow on both sides of the staging point, as the EC2 stages it chops the pulse duration in half X / 2 because you now have twice as many injectors. Ergo the fuel flow remains the same on both sides of the staging point. Now when you turn off either pair of injectors, the EC2 similarly tries to maintain the same fuel flow whether with 2 or 4 injectors, so when a pair are turned off, the EC2 doubles the PW to the remaining 2 injectors. Turning off a pair manually also turns on the cold start function which is what actually causes the doubling (if you have the injectors wired per Tracy's suggestion). The cold start switch function on the Program Control Panel also has the duty of doubling the fuel flow for those artic cold morning starts - but in this case, its doubled for both pair of injectors. So you can very easily flood you engine using the cold start switch - one of the reasons that Tracy later incorporated the "punch the program button and squirt" prime function. Don't know enough about the EM2 to offer any suggestions as to why you might see double the fuel flow - but, I'll bet it has to do with the above switches and functions - some combination is fooling the EM2. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis Test[FlyRotary] Dennis, I don't think that doubling thing is supposed to happen except for the fuel flow thru the other set of injectors. I certainly could be wrong tho. I don't know what would happen to mine above 7500 rpm because I couldn't get there if I threw it off a cliff! :>) You lost me with the 540 CC secondaries thing at the bottom. Did you mean 840 CC?? Your intake was similar to mine. What did you do to change it? What is full static power? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Haverlah Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:57 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis Test[FlyRotary] I agree that my Renesis engine was only producing about 70-80 HP on the small red primaries. When I run only on the primaries with the secondaries off and the cold start line grounded my EM-2 tach RPM doubles - 4000 RPM shows up as 8000! My fuel flow numbers and HP numbers appear also to be doubled!! The 140 HP probably was actually 70 HP! However - when I operate with the primaries off and the secondaries on the RPM and other data is not doubled!! Somewhere above 7500 RPM the RPM number on the EM-2 goes to Zero (0). Is this due to the rev. limiter Tracy may have included? If so - does it control engine speed by disabling the secondaries? After the fatality several years ago because an apparent injector may have been disabled by foreign matter, I was determined to have duel injectors and ignition for each rotor. This morning I replaced the Renesis red 295 cc primary injectors with blue Renesis 495 cc injectors. When running with the secondaries on (540 cc I believe) and the primaries off I get full static power. Because I've changed intake and injectors I will need some time to calibrate fuel flow before I can accurately report static fuel flow numbers. Dennis H. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C9F4FA.EBC57F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah, Ed when I said = doubling the fuel flow thru the other set of injectors, what I should have said is = doubling the pulse width, but I don’t think all that other stuff is = supposed to be happening.  He is getting a doubling of his rpm, hp, fuel flow = number, etc.  and that on only the one set.  Something is = cockeyed??

 

Bill B =  

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, = 2009 6:14 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis = Test[FlyRotary]

Actually, Bill, (unless Tracy recently changed it), when the = cold start it turned on OR one of the injector pair is turned off, the EC2 = doubles the pulse duration to the injectors.  It also does this when you = are running on primaries- before staging.

 

Here is basically what = happens  - at low rpm (before staging), the primary injectors  are on with a = pulse duration of X.  When the EC2 stages, it of course, brings on two = more injectors.  So to maintain the same fuel flow on both sides of the = staging point, as the EC2 stages it chops the pulse duration in half  X / 2 because you now have twice as many injectors.  Ergo the fuel flow = remains the same on both sides of the staging = point.

 

Now when you turn off either pair = of injectors, the EC2 similarly tries to maintain the same fuel flow = whether with 2 or 4 injectors, so when a pair are turned off, the EC2 doubles the PW = to the remaining 2 injectors.  Turning off a pair manually also turns on = the cold start function which is what actually causes the doubling (if you have = the injectors wired per Tracy’s suggestion).  The cold start switch function on the Program Control Panel also has the duty of doubling the = fuel flow for those artic cold morning starts – but in this case, its = doubled for both pair of injectors. So you can very easily flood you engine = using the cold start switch – one of the reasons that Tracy later incorporated the = “punch the program button and squirt” prime = function.

 

Don’t know enough about the = EM2 to offer any suggestions as to why you might see double the fuel flow = – but, I’ll bet it has to do with the above switches and functions = – some combination is fooling the EM2.

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, = 2009 4:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis = Test[FlyRotary]

 

Dennis,

I don’t think that doubling thing is = supposed to happen except for the fuel flow thru the other set of injectors.  I certainly could be wrong tho.  I don’t know what would happen = to mine above 7500 rpm because I couldn’t get there if I threw it off a cliff!  :>)

 

You lost me with the 540 CC secondaries thing = at the bottom.  Did you mean 840 CC??  Your intake was similar to mine.  What did you do to change it?

 

What is full static = power?

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Haverlah
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, = 2009 3:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 88HP vice 130 HP. [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc Renesis = Test[FlyRotary]



I agree that my Renesis engine was only producing about 70-80 HP on the = small red primaries.  When I run only on the primaries with the = secondaries off and the
cold start line grounded my EM-2  tach RPM doubles - 4000 = RPM shows up as 8000!    My fuel flow numbers and HP numbers appear = also to be doubled!!   The 140 HP probably was actually 70 = HP!   However - when I operate with the primaries off and the secondaries on the RPM and other data is not doubled!!  Somewhere above 7500 = RPM the RPM number on the EM-2 goes to Zero (0).    Is  this = due to the rev. limiter Tracy may have included?  If so - does it control engine speed by disabling  the secondaries?

After the fatality several years ago because an apparent injector may = have been disabled by foreign matter, I was determined to have duel injectors and ignition for each rotor.  This morning I replaced the Renesis red = 295 cc primary injectors with blue Renesis 495 cc injectors.

When running with the secondaries on  (540  cc I = believe) and the primaries off I get full static power.   Because = I've changed intake and injectors I will need some time to calibrate fuel = flow before I can accurately report static fuel flow numbers. 

Dennis H.

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C9F4FA.EBC57F00--