X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3653077 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:20:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.211; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.52]) by QMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id vw5p1b00317UAYkABxLKha; Mon, 25 May 2009 21:20:19 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id vxLH1b00K23NHuF8ZxLJa2; Mon, 25 May 2009 21:20:19 +0000 Message-ID: <4002EB70E74E42BC93F2202BBF86A38D@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Significant insignificant triumph Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 16:20:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C9DD54.B1D29890" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C9DD54.B1D29890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, I think he added this feature after you flooded your engine at the 07 = Roundup. Mine doesn't have this safety feature either. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Significant insignificant triumph Humm, turning on the cold start switch to run the injector simulator = mode? =20 Tracy, does this only apply to the EC3? I have never turned on the = cold start switch when using the injector simulator mode. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 3:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Significant insignificant triumph =20 Just a quick comment Chris. I'm assuming that you were running the injector test when you talked = about the injectors 'chattering away' until you turned on both sets = causing them to stop. If so, I'm guessing you forgot to turn on the = cold start switch before running the test. Turning off one set also = turns on cold start so it masked the oversight. Tracy On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Christopher Barber = wrote: I am hoping not to jinx myself, however, I got my electronics back = from Tracy a few days ago. I had sent them in following my latest engine = build. If ya'll remember, my lasted engine build failed. due to the = failed O-ring wall in a brand new intermediate plate. While waiting, I = have been cleaning up my install. Well, yesterday I reinstalled the electronics and was able to fire her = up. Ok, here is the part that is significant to me....After running her = for several minutes, with good coolant temps (but considerable higher = oil temps....no worries yet, it is a new radiator and oil coolers (2) = install and needs better ducting to the oil coolers) I shut her down AND = then started her right back up. =20 Not a big deal to most, but the consistent problems I have had with my = engine was that after I had run them for a short while they would not = restart for hours. In both the previous builds I found coolant in the = rotor chambers....the second build problem from the aforementioned = center plate failing (still not sure about the first build problem, = other than me overheating it, running w/o load etc all in a wonderful = education though mistake learning curve ). Coolant would seep = in....or, in the case of the last build, gush in. While the engine = would start initially, it got harder and harder. When this pattern = repeated is when I discovered the broken center plate. I know it may not seem too significant to most, but to me, to be able = to shut her down then just start her right back up gives me a quiet joy = I can't explain. Also, I went back to the hangar tonight after work, = pushed out the Velocity turned on the switches, cracked the throttle = about 1/3 (no priming needed....I may have been flooding her a bit = before) and she fired right up again. Shut down, and the same thing = again, she started right up. Such joy at such a little event. It was = about 2:00 am by this time (I get off duty at 11:00pm), so I retired for = the night......good thing the airport hangars are far from all homes. = Of course even my rotary roar is no match for the jets (military, = civilian and NASA) constantly taking off from EFD when it comes to = noise, even at 2:00am. NOW, perhaps, I can get to some actual progress in tuning the EC2/EM2 = and trouble shooting. Wahoo. I am guessing I will have many of the = concerns of those before me. Right now, it is missing a bit and some = surging, but I feel I can (hopefully) get to the meat of tuning if I can = get clean starts and keep the temps down while doing so. The much = larger radiator/fan is helping. The oil cooler is larger than before = but I think the fan for the radiator is stealing some airflow from the = oil cooler. An issue I see a couple of potential solutions for. In any = case, all the temps stay cooler longer than my last incarnation Also, I am having some injector problems, but I think it should be = just a simple wiring problem.....possibly a good old fashion short. The = primaries and secondary's both have power from different sources, if I = have power to either of them separately, they chatter away. however, if = I turn on the power to both at the same time, they both stop. It also = has wanted to stop completely when I got over about 4000 rpm (even if I = do not want to take it much higher than that yet due to it still = breaking in, I do know the engine should not just quit.....gee, ya think = ;-). Hmmmm, time to trace wires and connections. I do not think it has = anything to do with the EC/EM. Just one more thing to figure out.=20 Thanks for allowing me to share my latest chapter in the continuing = Saga. I hope to see a lot of y'all on Saturday. All the best, Chris Barber Houston =20 ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C9DD54.B1D29890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
I think he added this feature after you = flooded=20 your engine at the 07 Roundup.  Mine doesn't have this safety = feature=20 either.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I = testing
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 4:11 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Significant=20 insignificant triumph

Humm, = turning on the=20 cold start switch to run the injector simulator=20 mode?

 

Tracy, does this = only=20 apply to the EC3?  I have never turned on the cold start switch = when=20 using the injector simulator mode.

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 3:37 = PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Significant=20 insignificant triumph

 

Just a quick comment = Chris.

I'm=20 assuming that you were running the injector test when you talked about = the=20 injectors 'chattering away' until you turned on both sets causing them = to=20 stop.  If so, I'm guessing you forgot to turn on the cold start = switch=20 before running the test.  Turning off one set also turns on cold = start so=20 it masked the oversight.

Tracy

=

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Christopher = Barber=20 <CBarber@texasattorney.net&g= t;=20 wrote:

I am hoping not to jinx myself, however, I = got my=20 electronics back from Tracy a few days ago. I had sent = them in=20 following my latest engine build.  If ya'll remember, my lasted = engine=20 build failed. due to the failed O-ring wall in a brand new = intermediate=20 plate.  While waiting, I have been cleaning up my = install.

Well,=20 yesterday I reinstalled the electronics and was able to fire her = up.  Ok,=20 here is the part that is significant to me....After running her for = several=20 minutes, with good coolant temps (but considerable higher oil = temps....no=20 worries yet, it is a new radiator and oil coolers (2) install and = needs better=20 ducting to the oil coolers) I shut her down AND then started her right = back=20 up. 

Not a big deal to most, but the consistent problems = I have=20 had with my engine was that after I had run them for a short while = they would=20 not restart for hours.  In both the previous builds I found = coolant in=20 the rotor chambers....the second build problem from the = aforementioned =20 center plate failing (still not sure about the first build problem, = other than=20 me overheating it, running w/o load etc all in a wonderful education = though=20 mistake learning curve <g>). Coolant would seep in....or, in the = case of=20 the last build, gush in.  While the engine would start initially, = it got=20 harder and harder.  When this pattern repeated is when I = discovered the=20 broken center plate.

I know it may not seem too significant to = most,=20 but to me, to be able to shut her down then just start her right back = up gives=20 me a quiet joy I can't explain.  Also, I went back to the hangar = tonight=20 after work, pushed out the Velocity turned on the switches, cracked = the=20 throttle about 1/3 (no priming needed....I may have been flooding her = a bit=20 before) and she fired right up again. Shut down, and the same thing = again, she=20 started right up.  Such joy at such a little event.  It was = about=20 2:00 am by this time (I get off duty at 11:00pm), so I retired for the = night......good thing the airport hangars are far from all = homes.  Of=20 course even my rotary roar is no match for the jets (military, = civilian and=20 NASA) constantly taking off from EFD when it comes to noise, even at=20 2:00am.

NOW, perhaps, I can get to some actual progress in = tuning the=20 EC2/EM2 and trouble shooting.  Wahoo.  I am guessing I will = have=20 many of the concerns of those before me.  Right now, it is = missing a bit=20 and some surging, but I feel I can (hopefully) get to the meat of = tuning if I=20 can get clean starts and keep the temps down while doing so.  The = much=20 larger radiator/fan is helping.  The oil cooler is larger than = before but=20 I think the fan for the radiator is stealing some airflow from the oil = cooler.  An issue I see a couple of potential solutions = for.  In any=20 case, all the temps stay cooler longer than my last = incarnation

Also, I=20 am having some injector problems, but I think it should be just a = simple=20 wiring problem.....possibly a good old fashion short.  The = primaries and=20 secondary's both have power from different sources, if I have power to = either=20 of them separately, they chatter away.  however, if I turn on the = power=20 to both at the same time, they both stop. It also has wanted to stop=20 completely when I got over about 4000 rpm (even if I do not want to = take it=20 much higher than that yet due to it still breaking in, I do know the = engine=20 should not just quit.....gee, ya think ;-). Hmmmm, time to trace wires = and=20 connections.  I do not think it has anything to do with the = EC/EM. =20 Just one more thing to figure out.

Thanks for allowing me to = share my=20 latest chapter in the continuing Saga.  I hope to see a lot of = y'all on=20 Saturday.

All the best,

Chris Barber
Houston

 

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