X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3652732 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 May 2009 06:53:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090525105249250.PMPU28835@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:52:49 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Significant insignificant triumph Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 06:52:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9DD05.70227090" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcndHRFAM29enIloSpqQtnarJfBAkQABy73g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090525105249250.PMPU28835@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9DD05.70227090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good to hear that things appear to be going in the right direction for a change - what I test of your commitment to an alternative engine. Regarding your injectors cutting out when power is applied to both. It sounds like you may have a wiring/Switch error. If for instance, your ground for one injector pair was wire to a switch of the second pair such that when you turned both switches on you were actually switching your ground lead for your injectors from a true "grounded" connection to a positive voltage potential - then no current would flow. Perhaps a more likely scenario is that one of your switches is applying positive power to the EC2/3 side of the injectors - this could keep the EC2 from properly "Grounding" your injectors. All power applied to injectors MUST be on the injector connector that is on the OPPOSITE side (electrically) away from your EC2. That way when the transistors in the EC2/3 "ground" the circuit on its side of the injector current flows through your injectors and to the ground provided by the EC2/3. This causes all the voltage to drop across your injector so that at the instance of the EC2/3 grounding the circuit, you would have 12VDC on the power side of the injector and zero volts (ground) on the EC2 side. If power is applied to the injectors but the EC2/3 is not on or engine running then you will have 12 Volts on both side of the injector because the EC2 is not grounding it's side when the engine is not running OR your injector simulation mode is not turned ON. IF you have power being applied to the injectors on the EC2 side - then when the EC2/3 tries to ground the circuit it is fighting against the 12VDC on its side which should not be there. Not certain this is the problem, but I would check it out quickly. I would pull the electrical connector from all the injectors - then turn on your power to both of the injectors pairs one at a time. IF you measure 12 volts on the EC2 side of the connector at any time (with the injectors removed) then you have it wired improperly. There should be NO voltage on the EC2 side of the injectors when the injectors are removed - UNLESS you have power routed directly to that side of the injector connector - which you should not have. Good luck. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 5:41 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Significant insignificant triumph I am hoping not to jinx myself, however, I got my electronics back from Tracy a few days ago. I had sent them in following my latest engine build. If ya'll remember, my lasted engine build failed. due to the failed O-ring wall in a brand new intermediate plate. While waiting, I have been cleaning up my install. Well, yesterday I reinstalled the electronics and was able to fire her up. Ok, here is the part that is significant to me....After running her for several minutes, with good coolant temps (but considerable higher oil temps....no worries yet, it is a new radiator and oil coolers (2) install and needs better ducting to the oil coolers) I shut her down AND then started her right back up. Not a big deal to most, but the consistent problems I have had with my engine was that after I had run them for a short while they would not restart for hours. In both the previous builds I found coolant in the rotor chambers....the second build problem from the aforementioned center plate failing (still not sure about the first build problem, other than me overheating it, running w/o load etc all in a wonderful education though mistake learning curve ). Coolant would seep in....or, in the case of the last build, gush in. While the engine would start initially, it got harder and harder. When this pattern repeated is when I discovered the broken center plate. I know it may not seem too significant to most, but to me, to be able to shut her down then just start her right back up gives me a quiet joy I can't explain. Also, I went back to the hangar tonight after work, pushed out the Velocity turned on the switches, cracked the throttle about 1/3 (no priming needed....I may have been flooding her a bit before) and she fired right up again. Shut down, and the same thing again, she started right up. Such joy at such a little event. It was about 2:00 am by this time (I get off duty at 11:00pm), so I retired for the night......good thing the airport hangars are far from all homes. Of course even my rotary roar is no match for the jets (military, civilian and NASA) constantly taking off from EFD when it comes to noise, even at 2:00am. NOW, perhaps, I can get to some actual progress in tuning the EC2/EM2 and trouble shooting. Wahoo. I am guessing I will have many of the concerns of those before me. Right now, it is missing a bit and some surging, but I feel I can (hopefully) get to the meat of tuning if I can get clean starts and keep the temps down while doing so. The much larger radiator/fan is helping. The oil cooler is larger than before but I think the fan for the radiator is stealing some airflow from the oil cooler. An issue I see a couple of potential solutions for. In any case, all the temps stay cooler longer than my last incarnation Also, I am having some injector problems, but I think it should be just a simple wiring problem.....possibly a good old fashion short. The primaries and secondary's both have power from different sources, if I have power to either of them separately, they chatter away. however, if I turn on the power to both at the same time, they both stop. It also has wanted to stop completely when I got over about 4000 rpm (even if I do not want to take it much higher than that yet due to it still breaking in, I do know the engine should not just quit.....gee, ya think ;-). Hmmmm, time to trace wires and connections. I do not think it has anything to do with the EC/EM. Just one more thing to figure out. Thanks for allowing me to share my latest chapter in the continuing Saga. I hope to see a lot of y'all on Saturday. All the best, Chris Barber Houston __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9DD05.70227090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good to hear that things appear to = be going in  the right direction for a change – what I test of = your commitment to an alternative engine.

 

Regarding your injectors cutting = out when power is applied to both.  It sounds like you may have a = wiring/Switch error.  If for instance, your ground for one injector pair was wire = to a switch of the second pair such that when you turned both switches on you = were actually switching your ground lead  for your injectors from a true = “grounded” connection  to a positive voltage potential – then no current = would flow.

 

  Perhaps a more likely = scenario is that one of your switches is applying positive power to the EC2/3 = side of the injectors – this could keep the EC2 from properly = “Grounding” your injectors.

 

 All power  applied to = injectors MUST be on the injector connector that is on the OPPOSITE side = (electrically) away from your EC2.  That way when the transistors in the EC2/3 = “ground” the circuit on its side of the injector current flows through your = injectors and to the ground provided by the EC2/3.  This causes all the = voltage to drop across your injector so that at the instance of the EC2/3 grounding = the circuit, you would have 12VDC on the power side of the injector and zero = volts (ground) on the EC2 side.  If power is applied to the injectors but = the EC2/3 is not on or engine running then you will have 12 Volts on both = side of the injector because the EC2 is not grounding it’s side when the = engine is not running OR your injector simulation mode is not turned = ON.

 

IF you have power being applied to = the injectors on the EC2 side – then when the EC2/3 tries to ground = the circuit it is fighting against the 12VDC on its side which should not be = there.  Not certain this is the problem, but I would check it out quickly.  =

 

I would pull the electrical = connector from all the injectors – then turn on your power to both of  the injectors pairs one at a time.  IF you measure 12 volts on the EC2 = side of the connector at any time (with the injectors removed)  then you = have it wired improperly.   There should be NO voltage on the EC2 side = of the injectors when the injectors are removed – UNLESS you have power = routed directly to that side of the injector connector – which you should = not have.

 

Good = luck.

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Monday, May 25, = 2009 5:41 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Significant insignificant triumph

 

I am hoping not to jinx myself, however, I got my electronics = back from Tracy a few days ago. I had sent them in following my latest engine build.  If = ya'll remember, my lasted engine build failed. due to the failed O-ring wall = in a brand new intermediate plate.  While waiting, I have been cleaning = up my install.

Well, yesterday I reinstalled the electronics and was able to fire her up.  Ok, here is the part that is significant to me....After = running her for several minutes, with good coolant temps (but considerable higher = oil temps....no worries yet, it is a new radiator and oil coolers (2) = install and needs better ducting to the oil coolers) I shut her down AND then = started her right back up. 

Not a big deal to most, but the consistent problems I have had with my = engine was that after I had run them for a short while they would not restart = for hours.  In both the previous builds I found coolant in the rotor chambers....the second build problem from the aforementioned  = center plate failing (still not sure about the first build problem, other than me overheating it, running w/o load etc all in a wonderful education though mistake learning curve <g>). Coolant would seep in....or, in the = case of the last build, gush in.  While the engine would start initially, = it got harder and harder.  When this pattern repeated is when I discovered = the broken center plate.

I know it may not seem too significant to most, but to me, to be able to = shut her down then just start her right back up gives me a quiet joy I can't = explain.  Also, I went back to the hangar tonight after work, pushed out the = Velocity turned on the switches, cracked the throttle about 1/3 (no priming = needed....I may have been flooding her a bit before) and she fired right up again. = Shut down, and the same thing again, she started right up.  Such joy at = such a little event.  It was about 2:00 am by this time (I get off duty at 11:00pm), so I retired for the night......good thing the airport hangars = are far from all homes.  Of course even my rotary roar is no match for = the jets (military, civilian and NASA) constantly taking off from EFD when = it comes to noise, even at 2:00am.

NOW, perhaps, I can get to some actual progress in tuning the EC2/EM2 = and trouble shooting.  Wahoo.  I am guessing I will have many of = the concerns of those before me.  Right now, it is missing a bit and = some surging, but I feel I can (hopefully) get to the meat of tuning if I can = get clean starts and keep the temps down while doing so.  The much = larger radiator/fan is helping.  The oil cooler is larger than before but = I think the fan for the radiator is stealing some airflow from the oil = cooler.  An issue I see a couple of potential solutions for.  In any case, all = the temps stay cooler longer than my last incarnation

Also, I am having some injector problems, but I think it should be just = a simple wiring problem.....possibly a good old fashion short.  The primaries and secondary's both have power from different sources, if I = have power to either of them separately, they chatter away.  however, if = I turn on the power to both at the same time, they both stop. It also has = wanted to stop completely when I got over about 4000 rpm (even if I do not want to = take it much higher than that yet due to it still breaking in, I do know the = engine should not just quit.....gee, ya think ;-). Hmmmm, time to trace wires = and connections.  I do not think it has anything to do with the = EC/EM.  Just one more thing to figure out.

Thanks for allowing me to share my latest chapter in the continuing = Saga.  I hope to see a lot of y'all on Saturday.

All the best,

Chris Barber
Houston



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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