X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.119] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3633652 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 May 2009 10:14:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.119; envelope-from=delta11xd@att.net Received: (qmail 45632 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 14:14:12 -0000 Message-ID: <44876.44939.qm@web83912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: rgQlpb8VM1nAjRqVRHOclNEr8Sd9hehYQsj8RDwUBK53J_hg6uce2trXldcbEzmJuRaiq0Z9trfsuQmKip92zBiWZgLflXeasaQjV93nWuM5MJc3CWuv7X9M9cwtTRD_81xDuxIyol9WrJ0f01tEqBaWz.aAWtyvinwI3ULTEdvDo1miBfnPKlpfSlEngWXQZj4seOo_CoaUofi.pQhHX7.mZzBAkM0fsao_Iiije6gvlK_9FxHi7_b71PjFQEsP1MRdq5r01MXv7Uyzmp3II5j3_S74wXOVToCfmHhFQLYNAcU- Received: from [76.237.111.116] by web83912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 07:14:11 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 07:14:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Maher Reply-To: delta11xd@att.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Engine (not) starting with EC2 - SHE STARTED! To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1155165570-1241619251=:44939" --0-1155165570-1241619251=:44939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, BTW what type of aircraft are you planning to install the Geo engine in? You may have stated it but I did not see it anywhere. I'm sure that others on the list would like to know too. =A0 Jim --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Mike Fontenot wrote: From: Mike Fontenot Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Engine (not) starting with EC2 - SHE START= ED! To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 9:20 PM Hi everyone, Good news!=A0 She STARTED!=A0 And ran for about 10 minutes.=A0 Sweet Jezzzu= s that sounded good. After a year and a half I think I'm going to get this = bird in the air.=20 So here are the details: When we last left our GEO and the EC2 the crank po= sition sensor (CPS) connections for the primary and backup EC2 controllers = were swapped. Last night I hooked them up the right way. This afternoon I s= tarted thinking that this swap might not really be=A0 the problem, as much = as I wanted it to be.=20 Here's my logic, I'll call 'pull' and you can start shooting.=A0 Since the = A& B CPS are just reading the magnet on the wheels, I would think either on= e could be sending timing info to the EC2. So having them swapped would mak= e no timing/reading difference, assuming the magnets, CPS, and wheel teeth = were doing their jobs. Anyway, moving on. I talked with a good friend very knowledgeable of engines on Sunday. He sug= gested two things: 1. A can of Cold Start right into the throttle body.=A0=A0 Try that first, = if no good move on to #2. 2. Put some injector cleaner into the fuel and run that through the fuel sy= stem for a while. That might free any deposits on the injectors after sitti= ng for 1.5 years.=20 Tonight - Tuesday - with the CPS connected to the right spots I tried to st= art her up.=A0 Same as last Sunday, did not want to start. So=A0 took the a= ir filter off and sprayed in some Cold Start.=A0 Sat down, hit the starter = and BOOM, she started. It ran a bit rough at idle (1630 RPM) and I had to i= ncrease the mixture to keep her running.=A0 Earlier Tracy had suggested tha= t the first time around the EC2 injectors rate may have been set too high f= or my engine. I was biased to this as well and when I reduced the mixture s= he almost died. Anyway, with it running fairly smooth with Mixture control at about 0400,= =A0 I switched to Mode 3 and started lowering the fuel injector (FI) flow t= here. Engine almost died, but I increased the mixture to keep her running. = So I said what the hell, lets increase the Mode 3 FI rate and see what happ= ens.=A0 Engine started to smooth out nicely, mixture bars came up.=A0 I cou= ld start bringing the mixture knob back to 12 while increasing the FI in Mo= de 3.=20 I know I need to get the MAP up to around 22 to set the Mode 3 value proper= ly, but to make it start and run consistently I was able to play with the b= alance at these lower MAP values to keep it running smoothly. I took it up = to around 2100 RPM and kept it nice and smooth.=20 I let it run for about 10 minutes. During that time I tried switching to th= e B controller, almost died. It was great just to sit there and listen to h= er run, and run smoothly. The WX prediction is for possible thunder storms = tonight, and I could see a dust front moving towards my house. Wind picked = up to around 30 MPH.=A0 So I shut things down and pushed her back into the = garage. It is not trivial to move her in/out of my garage. Anyway, I don't = think my neighbors even realized what was going on, and even if they did, i= t was not for long. I know I've got a lot of work to do but I appreciate the feedback and advic= e so far. Thanks a lot, I'm sure you'll be getting more questions from me s= oon, but I think I'm on a good road.=A0 This weekend I plan to take her to = a shut down Target store, with a huge empty parking lot, find a tie down sp= ot and open her up.=20 I 'll keep you posted. Thanks again. --=20 Mike =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood, Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --0-1155165570-1241619251=:44939 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
BTW what type of aircraft are you planning to install the Geo engine i= n?
You may have stated it but I did not see it anywhere.
I'm sure that others on the list would like to know too.
 
Jim

--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsu= ltingservices.com> wrote:
From: Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsultingservices.= com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Engine (not) starting with EC2 = - SHE STARTED!
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 9:20 PM

Hi everyone,

Good news!  She STARTED!&nb= sp; And ran for about 10 minutes.  Sweet Jezzzus that sounded good. Af= ter a year and a half I think I'm going to get this bird in the air.
So here are the details: When we last left our GEO and the EC2 the crank = position sensor (CPS) connections for the primary and backup EC2 controller= s were swapped. Last night I hooked them up the right way. This afternoon I= started thinking that this swap might not really be  the problem, as = much as I wanted it to be.

Here's my logic, I'll call 'pull' and yo= u can start shooting.  Since the A& B CPS are just reading the mag= net on the wheels, I would think either one could be sending timing info to= the EC2. So having them swapped would make no timing/reading difference, a= ssuming the magnets, CPS, and wheel teeth were doing their jobs. Anyway, mo= ving on.

I talked with a good friend very knowledgeable of engines on Sunday. He suggested two things:

1. A can of Cold Start = right into the throttle body.   Try that first, if no good move o= n to #2.

2. Put some injector cleaner into the fuel and run that thr= ough the fuel system for a while. That might free any deposits on the injec= tors after sitting for 1.5 years.

Tonight - Tuesday - with the CPS = connected to the right spots I tried to start her up.  Same as last Su= nday, did not want to start. So  took the air filter off and sprayed i= n some Cold Start.  Sat down, hit the starter and BOOM, she started. I= t ran a bit rough at idle (1630 RPM) and I had to increase the mixture to k= eep her running.  Earlier Tracy had suggested that the first time arou= nd the EC2 injectors rate may have been set too high for my engine. I was b= iased to this as well and when I reduced the mixture she almost died.
Anyway, with it running fairly smooth with Mixture control at about 0400,  I switched to Mode 3 and started lowering the fuel injec= tor (FI) flow there. Engine almost died, but I increased the mixture to kee= p her running. So I said what the hell, lets increase the Mode 3 FI rate an= d see what happens.  Engine started to smooth out nicely, mixture bars= came up.  I could start bringing the mixture knob back to 12 while in= creasing the FI in Mode 3.

I know I need to get the MAP up to aroun= d 22 to set the Mode 3 value properly, but to make it start and run consist= ently I was able to play with the balance at these lower MAP values to keep= it running smoothly. I took it up to around 2100 RPM and kept it nice and = smooth.

I let it run for about 10 minutes. During that time I tried= switching to the B controller, almost died. It was great just to sit there= and listen to her run, and run smoothly. The WX prediction is for possible= thunder storms tonight, and I could see a dust front moving towards my house. Wind picked up to around 30 MPH.  So I shut things down and= pushed her back into the garage. It is not trivial to move her in/out of m= y garage. Anyway, I don't think my neighbors even realized what was going o= n, and even if they did, it was not for long.

I know I've got a lot = of work to do but I appreciate the feedback and advice so far. Thanks a lot= , I'm sure you'll be getting more questions from me soon, but I think I'm o= n a good road.  This weekend I plan to take her to a shut down Target = store, with a huge empty parking lot, find a tie down spot and open her up.=

I 'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

--
Mik= e

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Se= rvices LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsulti= ngservices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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