X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f215.google.com ([209.85.219.215] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3631347 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 May 2009 09:58:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.219.215; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by ewy11 with SMTP id 11so4003122ewy.19 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 06:58:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=YkginGz1YNy3p//E2/p3EhWNpWmuRYEmriiosYzUA2Q=; b=eBS+Kef1jlJBu3g9Xk4AsaZu/VMxI38SDHClEAwa4yQlrMurLszJOcGc6OfJIG9l2Z /3Vt2p4UJd6/tQxFOkrrHGD/b73cXtykwhxykzIoccbkWegDxmfp7y2fgUbNDRsOLwLx mcHGG/WJeFXAEpA4V9xP3Eepw+lDETQzqyPTk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=PBFWoUWp/QBrrJ0E+GNrI7vLFM6FZpQ0wXCT6YsZYZmr1q+MwDVnOMmyRS6nRcyHDh 5mxs3WN3suhMHwuYhO5Eh2nLjWxJKZ1pNxGmsZKq1J4aE5C3X5kDo4gMtVrTtn1Acuj+ 8h+pIdc+/O5K6bFVzdAXMxm1iOmpZB8SHqr7o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.139.14 with SMTP id m14mr2212125wfd.244.1241445493285; Mon, 04 May 2009 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 09:58:13 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ab9a45ece5a31582 Message-ID: <1b4b137c0905040658g6f291c38nbe5ebf02cf315750@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Initial Engine (not) starting with EC2 - suggestions appreciated! From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2dc40a2a52b0469168d7b --000e0cd2dc40a2a52b0469168d7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You've gotten good advice so far Mike. Questions-- What was the crank sensor test? How was that accomplished? Or was that just cranking the engine and checking for spark? You said you have different coils now. Are they equivalent to the originals? Was the EC2 updated for them? On engine starting problems there are always a standard set of questions that any mechanic would want to know. They are outlined in the latest EC2/= 3 installation guide. You probably don't have the latest version so I'll cop= y them here: ************************************************* *Engine Won=92t Start?* If you have trouble starting your engine and want to ask for assistance, be sure you have checked the usual things and can answer the following questions: . Have you tried the backup controller? . Have you run the diagnostics? . Are you getting spark at the plugs during cranking? . Are the fuel injectors firing and delivering fuel to the engine? . Is the engine flooding? . Is the fuel pressure normal (32 =96 40 psi)? . Have you double checked the timing? . Does the engine have normal cranking compression? (75 =96 110 PSI) . Have you tried a NEW set of spark plugs after verifying all the above an= d correcting any problems. (The rotary is especially sensitive to fouled spark plugs from flooding.) We are not clairvoyant, so Don't call after the starting attempt and say = =91My engine won=92t start, why not?=92 . But if you have given it your all a= nd still have no joy, give us a call or better yet, email us with your symptom= s and test results. ********************************************** Let us know how it goes. Tracy Crook On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Mike Fontenot < mikef@apexconsultingservices.com> wrote: > I have just this weekend gotten my rebuilt electrical system to the point > of being able to try and start the engine. I thought I would post what is > going on so far, and ask for any advice and suggestions about continued > debugging. I'm a noob at this so suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in > advance! > > I have the EC2 + EM 2 system, on a GEO 1.3 liter 4 cylinder engine. The > electrical system is a 'Z-19', (a la Aeroelectric Connection). The brand > new engine was last started in July 2007 and run for about 1 hour with th= e > EC2/EM2 to a maximum RPM of about 3200, but with different coils. The > igniter/coil combination burned out, thus leading to the electrical syste= m > redesign. The entire electrical system has been replaced with the Z19. > > Here is what I have so far: > > 5/2/2009- EC2 Diagnostic checks: > EC2 relay check for A & B controller - OK > Injector test - OK > Coil test - OK > EC2 Knob checks (Hex readout) - OK > > 5/3/2009 > Crank Sensor test - OK > Fuel pressure - FP 1 brings pressure to 43 psi. FP 1 + 2 raises pressure = to > 46 psi. Sound of FP 1 is a steady whine. Sound of FP 2 is kind of up and > down, but pressure remains at 43 without variation. The two fuel pumps a= re > purchased from Tracy/RWS. > > When attempting to start a small amount of blue smoke is seen from the > muffler. Not much. A few times it sounded like it almost started, but did > not. That is the exception. For the majority of attempts to start, the > starter motor turns the prop over and the engine coughs but does not star= t. > > Thanks! > > -- > Mike > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Mike Fontenot > Apex Consulting & Services LLC > Lakewood, Colorado > 303 / 731-6645 > mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > --000e0cd2dc40a2a52b0469168d7b Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You've gotten good advice so far Mike.

Questions-- =A0=A0 What w= as the crank sensor test?=A0 How was that accomplished?=A0 Or was that just= cranking the engine and checking for spark?

You said you have diffe= rent coils now.=A0 Are they equivalent to the originals? Was the EC2 update= d for them?=A0

On engine starting problems there are always a standard set of question= s that any mechanic would want to know.=A0 They are outlined in the latest = EC2/3 installation guide.=A0 You probably don't have the latest version= so I'll copy them here:

*************************************************

Engine Won=92t Start?

If you have trouble s= tarting your engine and want to ask for assistance, be sure you have checked the usual things and can answer the following questions:

=A0

.=A0 Have you tried the backup controller?

.=A0 Have you run the diagnostics?

.=A0 Are you getting spark at the plugs during cranking?

.=A0 Are the fuel injectors firing and delivering fuel to the engine?

.=A0 Is the engine flooding?

.=A0 Is the fuel pressure normal (32 =96 40 psi)?

.=A0 Have you double checked the timing?=A0

.=A0 Does the engine have normal cranking compression?= =A0 (75 =96 110 PSI)

.=A0 Have you tried a NEW set of spark plugs after verifying all the abov= e and correcting any problems.=A0 (The rotary is especially sensitive to fouled spark plugs from flooding.)

=A0

We are not clairvoyan= t, so Don't call after the starting attempt and say =91My engine won=92t start,=A0=A0 why not?=92 .=A0=A0 But if you have given it your all and still have no joy, give us a c= all or better yet, email us with your symptoms and test results.


**********************************************

Let us know how i= t goes.

Tracy Crook


On Sun, Ma= y 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsultingservices.com>= wrote:
I have just this = weekend gotten my rebuilt electrical system to the point of being able to t= ry and start the engine. I thought I would post what is going on so far, an= d ask for any advice and suggestions about continued debugging. I'm a n= oob at this so suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I have the EC2 + EM 2 system, on a GEO 1.3 liter 4 cylinder engine. The= electrical system is a 'Z-19', (a la Aeroelectric Connection).=A0 = The brand new engine was last started in July 2007 and run for about 1 hour= with the EC2/EM2 to a maximum RPM of about 3200, but with different coils.= The igniter/coil combination burned out, thus leading to the electrical sy= stem redesign. The entire electrical system has been replaced with the Z19.=

Here is what I have so far:

5/2/2009- EC2 Diagnostic checks:
EC2 relay check for A & B controller - OK
Injector test - OK
Coil test - OK
EC2 Knob checks (Hex readout) - OK

5/3/2009
Crank Sensor test - OK
Fuel pressure - FP 1 brings pressure to 43 psi. FP 1 + 2 raises pressure to 46 psi. Sound of FP 1 is a steady whine. Sound of FP 2 is kind of up and down, but pressure remains at 43 without variation.=A0 The two fuel pumps a= re purchased from Tracy/RWS.

When attempting to start a small amount of blue smoke is seen from the muffler. Not much. A few times it sounded like it almost started, but did not. That is the exception. For the majority of attempts to start, the starter motor turns the prop over and the engine coughs but does not start.

Thanks!

--
Mike

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services= LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingserv= ices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--000e0cd2dc40a2a52b0469168d7b--