X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.253] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3630893 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 May 2009 20:53:36 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.253; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Fine tuning! Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 19:53:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C9CC5B.2D3D2C26" Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F30D85F4@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Fine tuning! thread-index: AcnMVDMCPA+GTVVcS/aFSqqwHWg19AAA4N3g References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9CC5B.2D3D2C26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don =20 I am using a PLX SM-AFR + DM-100 Combo Wideband. It will also output a narrow band signal to the EM2/3. http://www.plxdevices.com/wideband.html. Works great.=20 =20 Occasionally map addresses drop out =20 Are you saying it was programmed to a different value and some how defaulted back to 0 on just one address?=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Don Wallker Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Fine tuning! Flying RV-8 N113BR 1.2 hours in the air, 3 flights, 35+ on engine 13B Renesis, EM-2, EC-2, RD-1C, Catto 76/88 Tuned intake, 17.5 in, Tuned exhaust 24 in Flys like an RV, quietest plane around, long hushpower II and tangential in series 1130lbs empty. Engine starts easy and runs smooth. There are a few things going on with the airplane that that I am having trouble with and don't seem to be making any progress on. Thought some of you might have some thoughts. 1. Occasionally map addresses drop out. It hasn't happened in a while, but 3 weeks or so ago, as I advanced the throttle there was a rough spot. I went and looked at the EM-2 in track mode and sure enough, address 43 was at zero. I manually programed in fuel and it ran smooth again. Running through the Map addresses is now part of my checklist. 2. Starting at about 6000 RPM, the RPM display on the EM-2 starts dropping out. By the time the RPM gets to 6500 or so it is almost completely gone, but comes back when I reduce the throttle. I have an optical prop tach so I know it's speed 3. Not getting full power. On the ground I can only get the RPM to about 5800 static. Some others with similar setups are getting 6200 static. Once in the early days of running this, I could get 6100 on the B controller. Shortly thereafter, I foolishly copied A to B and b starts acting like a. I can only get 6800 max RPM in the air, midrange on the air-fuel mixture gauge. 8000ft, 40 degree day. Additionally, B never works as well as A. When I make minor changes to A and copy to B, it never runs as well. It is my understanding that the only difference is there is no Temperature compensation and that the coil disable switches only work on B. 4.High and unbalanced EGTs If I leave the mixture control just a little below midrange, the EGTs stay pretty close all the way up to 5750 or so. If I enrichen the mixture the RPMs goes up 125 RPM or so, but rotor 1 (closest to the CAS) starts climbing rapidly to about 1720 degrees or so and rotor 2 starts dropping off, down to 1450 or so. Engine runs smooth. EGT probes have been tested. Pilot has been too busy flying airplane to check if this is happening in the air. I'll check on the next flight. Oh, no air leaks in the manifold. I've checked several times. All rotor 1 intake manifold tubes are same as rotor 2. Just a mirror image. I have had an e-mail discussion with Tracy and he says there may be an Electrical noise problem. He wrote, "a cap and a resistor on the injector line to the EM-2". That's it, but no specifics or drawings. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Right now I have EC-2 line 17 hooked to line p3-6 on the EM-2. It was suggested to do this to make the signal stronger rather than have it just come via the serial lines. By the way, I'm not an EE or electronics tech so I really don't know what I'm doing, just a guy who can usually follow directions. I suspect there may be a common cause to all this. Perhaps it is electrical noise. It seems to be part of it. If the noise problem takes care of some of this, great. Then on to the remaining. My next experiment will be to run the engine with only the Essential buss on and see if anything changes. I only have one Ground line off my battery to the Firewall ground. If I remember correctly, 2 grounds run off that to the engine and that's it. This cutting edge stuff takes forever. Thankfully it's not bleeding edge. A couple of successes: My old style fuel pumps were starting to sound funny. In addition, when one was running and I switched to the other, when the engine was hot, the fuel pressure would drop, the engine cough and a few seconds later the second pump would start pumping. I would run both for 30 seconds or so to get rid of the vapor lock before shutting off the first one. I ordered and installed the new ones that RWS now sells. This problem was less, but still there. Ended up insulating the shielding around the pumps and this took care of it. Also the old pumps were very noisy and whined loudly during all flight phases. Very difficult to hear these new pumps. Nice! My engine leaked a little oil from the top of the mount plate. I had to take it apart when I realized that I had to drill a hole in the engine case for the PSRU oil return. I didn't get it resealed perfectly. It didn't leak much, but was a nusence. An engineer friend told me how to fix it. Spray the area that is leaking with Carbon Tet based brake parts cleaner and let it evaporate. Coat the area with clean silicone. Pull a vacuum on the engine with vacuum pump. I hooked mine up to the Crank Case breather tube going out the top of the oil filler cap. I let it set for 24 hours and no oil leak! Now that's nice! I notice that there is a provision for a 2nd CAS to the EC-2. Has anyone done that and how is it done and where to mount? I know about using only aluminum for mounting the CAS. I've come to understand the Mixture monitor and like it! It would be nice if there was a wide range O2 sensor that gave more of an analog response rather then the almost on/off reading that we now get. Anyone know which one might work and if you are using one? Thanks, Don Walker ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9CC5B.2D3D2C26 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don
 
I am using a PLX  SM-AFR + DM-100 Combo = Wideband. It=20 will also output a narrow band signal to the EM2/3. http://www.plxdevices.co= m/wideband.html. =20 Works great.
 
Occasionally map=20 addresses drop out   
Are=20 you saying it was programmed to a different value and some how defaulted = back to=20 0 on just one address?
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Don=20 Wallker
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:02 PM
To: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fine = tuning!

Flying RV-8  N113BR  1.2 hours in the air, 3 = flights, 35+=20 on engine
13B Renesis, EM-2, EC-2, RD-1C, Catto 76/88
Tuned = intake, 17.5=20 in, Tuned exhaust 24 in
Flys like an RV, quietest plane around, long=20 hushpower II and tangential in series
1130lbs empty.  Engine = starts easy=20 and runs smooth.

There are a few things going on with the = airplane that=20 that I am having trouble with and don't seem to be making any progress = on. =20 Thought some of you might have some thoughts.
1. Occasionally map=20 addresses drop out.  It hasn't happened in a while, but 3 weeks = or so=20 ago, as I advanced the throttle there was a rough spot.  I went and = looked=20 at the EM-2 in track mode and sure enough, address 43 was at zero.  = I=20 manually programed in fuel and it ran smooth again. Running through the = Map=20 addresses is now part of my checklist.
2. Starting at about 6000 = RPM, the=20 RPM display on the EM-2 starts dropping out.  By the time the = RPM gets=20 to 6500 or so it is almost completely gone, but comes back when I reduce = the=20 throttle.  I have an optical prop tach so I know it's speed
3. = Not=20 getting full power.  On the ground I can only get the RPM to = about 5800=20 static.  Some others with similar setups are getting 6200 = static. =20 Once in the early days of running this,  I could get 6100 on the B=20 controller. Shortly thereafter, I foolishly copied A to B and  b = starts=20 acting like a.  I can only get 6800 max RPM in the air, midrange on = the=20 air-fuel mixture gauge.  8000ft, 40 degree day.  Additionally, = B never=20 works as well as A.  When I make minor changes to A and copy to B, = it never=20 runs as well.  It is my understanding that the only difference is = there is=20 no Temperature compensation and that the coil disable switches only work = on=20 B.
4.High and unbalanced EGTs  If I leave the mixture = control=20 just a little below midrange, the EGTs stay pretty close all the way up = to 5750=20 or so.  If I enrichen the mixture the RPMs goes up 125 RPM or so, = but rotor=20 1 (closest to the CAS) starts climbing rapidly to about 1720 degrees or = so and=20 rotor 2 starts dropping off, down to 1450 or so.  Engine runs = smooth. =20 EGT probes have been tested.  Pilot has been too busy flying = airplane to=20 check if this is happening in the air.  I'll check on the next = flight. Oh,=20 no air leaks in the manifold. I've checked several times. All rotor 1 = intake=20 manifold tubes are same as rotor 2.  Just a mirror=20 image.

    I have had an e-mail discussion with = Tracy and=20 he says there may be an Electrical noise problem.  He wrote, "a cap = and a=20 resistor on the injector line to the EM-2".  That's it, but no = specifics or=20 drawings.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?  Right now I have = EC-2=20 line 17 hooked to line p3-6 on the EM-2.  It was suggested to do = this to=20 make the signal stronger rather than have it just come via the serial=20 lines.  By the way, I'm not an EE or electronics tech so I really = don't=20 know what I'm doing, just a guy who can usually follow directions.  = I=20 suspect there may be a common cause to all this.  Perhaps it is = electrical=20 noise.  It seems to be part of it.  If the noise problem takes = care of=20 some of this, great.  Then on to the remaining.  My next = experiment=20 will be to run the engine with only the Essential buss on and see if = anything=20 changes.  I only have one Ground line off my battery to the = Firewall=20 ground.  If I remember correctly, 2 grounds run off that to the = engine and=20 that's it.  This cutting edge stuff takes forever.  Thankfully = it's=20 not bleeding edge.

A couple of successes:
    = My old=20 style fuel pumps were starting to sound funny.  In addition, when = one was=20 running and I switched to the other, when the engine was hot, the fuel = pressure=20 would drop, the engine cough and a few seconds later the second pump = would start=20 pumping.  I would run both for 30 seconds or so to get rid of the = vapor=20 lock before shutting off the first one.  I ordered and installed = the new=20 ones that RWS now sells.  This problem was less, but still = there. =20 Ended up insulating the shielding around the pumps and this took care of = it.  Also the old pumps were very noisy and whined loudly during = all flight=20 phases.  Very difficult to hear these new pumps.=20 Nice!
    My engine leaked a little oil from the top = of the=20 mount plate.  I had to take it apart when I realized that I had to = drill a=20 hole in the engine case for the PSRU oil return.  I didn't get it = resealed=20 perfectly.  It didn't leak much, but was a nusence.  An = engineer=20 friend told me how to fix it.  Spray the area that is leaking with = Carbon=20 Tet based brake parts cleaner and let it evaporate.  Coat the area = with=20 clean silicone.  Pull a vacuum on the engine with  vacuum = pump. =20 I hooked mine up to the Crank Case breather tube going out the top of = the oil=20 filler cap.  I let it set for 24 hours and no oil leak!  Now = that's=20 nice!

I notice that there is a provision for a 2nd CAS to the = EC-2. =20 Has anyone done that and how is it done and where to mount?  I know = about=20 using only aluminum for mounting the CAS.
I've come to understand the = Mixture=20 monitor and like it!  It would be nice if there was a wide range O2 = sensor=20 that gave more of an analog response rather then the almost on/off = reading that=20 we now get. Anyone know which one might work and if you are using=20 one?

Thanks,
Don Walker



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