X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3630739 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 May 2009 17:43:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from mail.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BBB173994 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 05:43:11 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by mail.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D030149C5EC for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 05:43:08 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <57C1AE4BCC6742EF9DE54A9CDEA59305@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Harley Davidson Generator Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 07:43:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9CC8B.F8FE5DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-3, 04/28/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9CC8B.F8FE5DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd, Just a suggestion, would a custom (flat) fly wheel give any extra room. George (down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Todd Bartrim=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:14 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Harley Davidson Generator I just spent another hour measuring and thinking and tinkering. I = overestimated how much I can gain by moving the steel hub to the = backside of the dampener plate. It will only gain me 5/32", but the = rivet heads are another 3/32" so these can be changed to countersunk = rivet heads to give me a total additional clearance of 1/4", which will = also facilitate mounting the rotor to the dampener plate. This will give = me 1 7/16" clearance to fit in the rotor. A closer look at the rotor shows that the magnets are completely = to the back edge of the rotor cup, so there is no further machining of = this possible. I don't expect the magnets would stand up to any = machining very well. However the face of the stator cup is 3/16" thick = so I could take 3/32" off this face. Since it will be mounted directly = to the dampener face it won't be driven by the splined shaft, so this = should be fine. This should make the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me = clearance of 1/64". Cutting it pretty darned close but it should work. My biggest concern is that the steel center hub of the dampener = plate that mates with the splined input shaft is moved back resulting in = 11/32" less spline contact, from an original 1 13/16" down to 1 5/8" of = spline contact. "Should" be enough? Might have to get a "special" input = shaft? About the only other thing that I see that might be necessary is a = slight circular groove on the back of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a = little more clearance for the windings on the stator. This might not be = required however the windings are not perfectly equal around the stator, = with the occasional one needing a little more clearance. This circular = groove would only have to be slight and would be located within the = circle of bolts for the RD-1 so would have no issues with interference = or compromising strength.=20 For those interested in weight (and why not) the stator and rotor = weigh a combined 6.17 lbs Todd C-FSTB =20 On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 -0700, Todd Bartrim wrote: Hi Ernest, Kelly and others; I promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimenting this = time around, but here I go again..... Today I went down to the local Harley shop and lost $381cad. And I = just have the rotor and stator to show for it. I still need to buy the = regulator, but I figure I shouldn't throw that money away until I can = definitively make this work. Kelly, you probably did the right thing by = ordering from Compu-Fire, but there is something to be said for holding = the parts in your hand and fitting & measuring it first. The store owner = is also a pilot and was quite helpful when I told him what it was for. = These are genuine Harley parts, so surely I paid for that privilege as = well. Stator 32amp #29970-88DHD Rotor #29957-81BHD Unfortunately, while I think I can make this work, it ain't gonna be = easy. It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 mounting plate and to = the flex plate dampener. The rotor will also require some alterations. = This rotor is 1.52" thick and the space currently available between the = dampener and the mount plate is 1 3/16". And the edge of the rotor also = lines up with the ring of bolt heads holding the RD-1 together. To = accommodate this I plan to countersink these bolt heads so they are = flush with the mount plate. There also needs to be a path for the stator = wire to pass under the edge of the rotor. I plan to machine a slot 3/16" = deep x 1/4" wide x 1.5" long into the backside of the mount plate. There = will have to be several mount bolts to fasten the stator in place which = will pass through the mount plate into the oil filled internals of the = RD-1. I plan to drill these holes and then machine an o-ring groove = under the bolt heads. I believe these will be located in an area where = they will not interfere with the sun gear so they will not need to be = countersunk. That should be all that's required of the mount plate, but = that still only leaves 1 3/16" to fit in a 1.52" thick rotor. The rotor will require the splined center to be enlarged to fit = over the dampener. I'll have this done on a lathe and while it's on = there, I'll have a little taken off both the face and the back edge. = I'll gain very little here, but I'll also ensure that they are true. Now the dampener is where I think I can make the required gains. = The steel center hub is riveted to the front side of the aluminium = dampener plate. I think I can relocate this hub to the back side of the = dampener plate. This should give me an extra 3/8" to work with. The = backside of the center hub on this dampener plate will likely have to = have 1/8" taken off the center to allow for the flywheel nut, but there = is lots of material here. This part is a little hard to describe so I'll = take pics as I go. And surely there'll be something I'm overlooking. But = I'm betting $381 that I can do it. This will require the services of a machinist and as luck would = have it, the latest guy I signed onto play on my hockey team happens to = be a machinist out at the mill I work at. So I'll get him working on = some of this next week. Todd C-FSTB =20 On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:53 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20 =20 Ernest and Todd, Ernest what is output amps of the system that you bought = ??.............I just sprung for the "Compu-Fire" 40 amp system................Link = attached...............Sure hope it works as it is fairly pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I = am using a auto trans bell housing between engine and RD1C redrive............. =20 http://www.compufire.com/harley-main.html -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Ernest Christley = : --------------=20 > Todd Bartrim wrote:=20 > > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. I didn't expect you up so = late on=20 > > your side of the continent.=20 > I've been trying to get a business going. Selling software for = the=20 > sport of wrestling. It seems like I don't ever sleep anymore.=20 >=20 > > Is yours a genuine Harley part?=20 > No. It's an aftermarket part.=20 > > How about dimensions?=20 > > -OD of the rotor=20 > Just over 6". You'll want at least 6.25" for clearance. From = memory,=20 > ID is just over 1.5" I believe. It's a fairly tight fit on the = sun gear=20 > shaft. I believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing.=20 >=20 > > -ID of the stator=20 > It's all put together, so that number is rather difficult to = come by=20 > right now. I believe it is right at 3". I'm thinking the bolt = circle=20 > was 3.375" diameter, but I'm going to have to reserve the = right to be wrong.=20 > > -Thickness=20 > 1.75"=20 >=20 >=20 > I fabricated a fiberglass shield that sits between the stator = and PSRU.=20 > The object being to keep trash out of the rotor. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9CC8B.F8FE5DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Todd,
Just a suggestion, would a custom = (flat) fly wheel=20 give any extra room.
George (down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Todd = Bartrim=20
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:14 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Harley = Davidson=20 Generator

I just spent another hour measuring and thinking and = tinkering.=20 I overestimated how much I can gain by moving the steel hub to the = backside of=20 the dampener plate. It will only gain me 5/32", but the rivet heads = are=20 another 3/32" so these can be changed to countersunk rivet heads to = give me a=20 total additional clearance of 1/4", which will also facilitate = mounting the=20 rotor to the dampener plate. This will give me 1 7/16" clearance to = fit in the=20 rotor.
     A closer look at the rotor shows = that the=20 magnets are completely to the back edge of the rotor cup, so there is = no=20 further machining of this possible. I don't expect the magnets would = stand up=20 to any machining very well. However the face of the stator cup is = 3/16" thick=20 so I could take 3/32" off this face. Since it will be mounted directly = to the=20 dampener face it won't be driven by the splined shaft, so this should = be fine.=20 This should make the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me clearance of = 1/64".=20 Cutting it pretty darned close but it should = work.
    My=20 biggest concern is that the steel center hub of the dampener plate = that mates=20 with the splined input shaft is moved back resulting in 11/32" less = spline=20 contact, from an original 1 13/16" down to 1 5/8" of spline contact. = "Should"=20 be enough? Might have to get a "special" input shaft?

About the = only=20 other thing that I see that might be necessary is a slight circular = groove on=20 the back of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a little more clearance for = the=20 windings on the stator. This might not be required however the = windings are=20 not perfectly equal around the stator, with the occasional one needing = a=20 little more clearance. This circular groove would only have to be = slight and=20 would be located within the circle of bolts for the RD-1 so would have = no=20 issues with interference or compromising strength.

For those=20 interested in weight (and why not) the stator and rotor weigh a = combined 6.17=20 lbs

Todd
C-FSTB


On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 = -0700, Todd=20 Bartrim wrote:
Hi Ernest, Kelly and = others;
    I=20 promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimenting this time = around, but=20 here I go again.....
Today I went down to the local Harley shop = and lost=20 $381cad. And I just have the rotor and stator to show for it. I = still need=20 to buy the regulator, but I figure I shouldn't throw that money away = until I=20 can definitively make this work. Kelly, you probably did the right = thing by=20 ordering from Compu-Fire, but there is something to be said for = holding the=20 parts in your hand and fitting & measuring it first. The store = owner is=20 also a pilot and was quite helpful when I told him what it was for. = These=20 are genuine Harley parts, so surely I paid for that privilege as=20 well.
    Stator 32amp = #29970-88DHD
   =20 Rotor #29957-81BHD
Unfortunately, while I think I can make this = work, it=20 ain't gonna be easy. It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 = mounting=20 plate and to the flex plate dampener. The rotor will also require = some=20 alterations. This rotor is 1.52" thick and the space currently = available=20 between the dampener and the mount plate is 1 3/16". And the edge of = the=20 rotor also lines up with the ring of bolt heads holding the RD-1 = together.=20 To accommodate this I plan to countersink these bolt heads so they = are flush=20 with the mount plate. There also needs to be a path for the stator = wire to=20 pass under the edge of the rotor. I plan to machine a slot 3/16" = deep x 1/4"=20 wide x 1.5" long into the backside of the mount plate. There will = have to be=20 several mount bolts to fasten the stator in place which will pass = through=20 the mount plate into the oil filled internals of the RD-1. I plan to = drill=20 these holes and then machine an o-ring groove under the bolt heads. = I=20 believe these will be located in an area where they will not = interfere with=20 the sun gear so they will not need to be countersunk. That should be = all=20 that's required of the mount plate, but that still only leaves 1 = 3/16" to=20 fit in a 1.52" thick rotor.
    The rotor will = require the=20 splined center to be enlarged to fit over the dampener. I'll have = this done=20 on a lathe and while it's on there, I'll have a little taken off = both the=20 face and the back edge. I'll gain very little here, but I'll also = ensure=20 that they are true.
    Now the dampener is where = I think=20 I can make the required gains. The steel center hub is riveted to = the front=20 side of the aluminium dampener plate. I think I can relocate this = hub to the=20 back side of the dampener plate. This should give me an extra 3/8" = to work=20 with. The backside of the center hub on this dampener plate will = likely have=20 to have 1/8" taken off the center to allow for the flywheel nut, but = there=20 is lots of material here. This part is a little hard to describe so = I'll=20 take pics as I go. And surely there'll be something I'm overlooking. = But I'm=20 betting $381 that I can do it.
    This will = require the=20 services of a machinist and as luck would have it, the latest guy I = signed=20 onto play on my hockey team happens to be a machinist out at the = mill I work=20 at. So I'll get him working on some of this next=20 week.

Todd
C-FSTB



On Sat, 2009-05-02 at = 23:53 +0000,=20 Kelly Troyer wrote:

 
Ernest and=20 Todd,
       Ernest what is = output amps=20 of the system that you bought ??.............I just sprung for=20 the
"Compu-Fire" 40 amp system................Link=20 attached...............Sure hope it works as it is
fairly=20 pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I am = using a auto=20 trans bell housing
between engine and RD1C=20 redrive.............
 
http://www.compufire.c= om/harley-main.html
--
Kelly=20 Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

-------------- Original message from Ernest Christley=20 <echristley@nc.rr.com>: --------------


> = Todd=20 Bartrim wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. = I didn't=20 expect you up so late on
> > your side of the = continent.=20
> I've been trying to get a business going. Selling = software for=20 the
> sport of wrestling. It seems like I don't ever = sleep=20 anymore.
>
> > Is yours a genuine Harley part? =
>=20 No. It's an aftermarket part.
> > How about = dimensions?=20
> > -OD of the rotor
> Just over 6". You'll = want at=20 least 6.25" for clearance. From memory,
> ID is just over = 1.5" I=20 believe. It's a fairly tight fit on the sun gear
> shaft. = I=20 believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing.
>
> > = -ID of=20 the stator
> It's all put together, so that number is = rather=20 difficult to come by
> right now. I believe it is right = at 3".=20 I'm thinking the bolt circle
> was 3.375" diameter, but = I'm going=20 to have to reserve the right to be wrong.
> > = -Thickness=20
> 1.75"
>
>
> I fabricated a = fiberglass=20 shield that sits between the stator and PSRU.
> The = object being=20 to keep trash out of the rotor.=20
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