X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3630689 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 May 2009 14:39:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.101; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1241375944; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=QnNydD EChyOxAP5Wl6dlzWzIKfWPdBZk5ucYuT6pz8w=; b=pGlsjOPx5Ay2fNTAwrAhzcGAz NNu21VlFxF7JQxDTN0JT1/CFG3Kk3ayJ6DVmCRmabq2C5d/lcQnDoZi+kQyEw== Received: from fwebmail33.isp.att.net ([204.127.221.133]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20090503183829H0100sfense>; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:38:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.221.133] Received: from [64.250.217.5] by fwebmail33.isp.att.net; Sun, 03 May 2009 18:38:28 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Harley Davidson Generator Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:38:28 +0000 Message-Id: <050320091838.3280.49FDE4A400057EF600000CD022243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd, Ernest, George and All, Attaboy Todd !!...............Glad to see you jump in here with bot= h feet.............Your installation will be the "BETA" project for Tracy's RD1X series of redrives as both Erne= st's and mine are non standard with more space between redrive and dampener.............=20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Todd Bartrim : ----= ----------=20 I just spent another hour measuring and thinking and tinkering. I overestim= ated how much I can gain by moving the steel hub to the backside of the dam= pener plate. It will only gain me 5/32", but the rivet heads are another 3/= 32" so these can be changed to countersunk rivet heads to give me a total a= dditional clearance of 1/4", which will also facilitate mounting the rotor = to the dampener plate. This will give me 1 7/16" clearance to fit in the ro= tor. A closer look at the rotor shows that the magnets are completely to th= e back edge of the rotor cup, so there is no further machining of this poss= ible. I don't expect the magnets would stand up to any machining very well.= However the face of the stator cup is 3/16" thick so I could take 3/32" of= f this face. Since it will be mounted directly to the dampener face it won'= t be driven by the splined shaft, so this should be fine. This should make = the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me clearance of 1/64". Cutting it pretty d= arned close but it should work. My biggest concern is that the steel center hub of the dampener plate t= hat mates with the splined input shaft is moved back resulting in 11/32" le= ss spline contact, from an original 1 13/16" down to 1 5/8" of spline conta= ct. "Should" be enough? Might have to get a "special" input shaft? About the only other thing that I see that might be necessary is a slight c= ircular groove on the back of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a little more c= learance for the windings on the stator. This might not be required however= the windings are not perfectly equal around the stator, with the occasiona= l one needing a little more clearance. This circular groove would only have= to be slight and would be located within the circle of bolts for the RD-1 = so would have no issues with interference or compromising strength.=20 For those interested in weight (and why not) the stator and rotor weigh a c= ombined 6.17 lbs Todd C-FSTB On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 -0700, Todd Bartrim wrote: Hi Ernest, Kelly and others; I promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimenting this time arou= nd, but here I go again..... Today I went down to the local Harley shop and lost $381cad. And I just hav= e the rotor and stator to show for it. I still need to buy the regulator, b= ut I figure I shouldn't throw that money away until I can definitively make= this work. Kelly, you probably did the right thing by ordering from Compu-= Fire, but there is something to be said for holding the parts in your hand = and fitting & measuring it first. The store owner is also a pilot and was q= uite helpful when I told him what it was for. These are genuine Harley part= s, so surely I paid for that privilege as well. Stator 32amp #29970-88DHD Rotor #29957-81BHD Unfortunately, while I think I can make this work, it ain't gonna be easy. = It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 mounting plate and to the flex= plate dampener. The rotor will also require some alterations. This rotor i= s 1.52" thick and the space currently available between the dampener and th= e mount plate is 1 3/16". And the edge of the rotor also lines up with the = ring of bolt heads holding the RD-1 together. To accommodate this I plan to= countersink these bolt heads so they are flush with the mount plate. There= also needs to be a path for the stator wire to pass under the edge of the = rotor. I plan to machine a slot 3/16" deep x 1/4" wide x 1.5" long into the= backside of the mount plate. There will have to be several mount bolts to = fasten the stator in place which will pass through the mount plate into the= oil filled internals of the RD-1. I plan to drill these holes and then mac= hine an o-ring groove under the bolt heads. I believe these will be located= in an area where they will not interfere with the sun gear so they will no= t need to be countersunk. That should be all that's required of the mount p= late, but that still only leaves 1 3/16" to fit in a 1.52" thick rotor. The rotor will require the splined center to be enlarged to fit over th= e dampener. I'll have this done on a lathe and while it's on there, I'll ha= ve a little taken off both the face and the back edge. I'll gain very littl= e here, but I'll also ensure that they are true. Now the dampener is where I think I can make the required gains. The st= eel center hub is riveted to the front side of the aluminium dampener plate= . I think I can relocate this hub to the back side of the dampener plate. T= his should give me an extra 3/8" to work with. The backside of the center h= ub on this dampener plate will likely have to have 1/8" taken off the cente= r to allow for the flywheel nut, but there is lots of material here. This p= art is a little hard to describe so I'll take pics as I go. And surely ther= e'll be something I'm overlooking. But I'm betting $381 that I can do it. This will require the services of a machinist and as luck would have it= , the latest guy I signed onto play on my hockey team happens to be a machi= nist out at the mill I work at. So I'll get him working on some of this nex= t week. Todd C-FSTB On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:53 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20 =20 Ernest and Todd, Ernest what is output amps of the system that you bought ??.........= ....I just sprung for the "Compu-Fire" 40 amp system................Link attached...............Sure = hope it works as it is fairly pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I am using = a auto trans bell housing between engine and RD1C redrive............. =20 http://www.compufire.com/harley-main.html -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Ernest Christley : --------------=20 > Todd Bartrim wrote:=20 > > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. I didn't expect you up so late on=20 > > your side of the continent.=20 > I've been trying to get a business going. Selling software for the=20 > sport of wrestling. It seems like I don't ever sleep anymore.=20 >=20 > > Is yours a genuine Harley part?=20 > No. It's an aftermarket part.=20 > > How about dimensions?=20 > > -OD of the rotor=20 > Just over 6". You'll want at least 6.25" for clearance. From memory,=20 > ID is just over 1.5" I believe. It's a fairly tight fit on the sun gear= =20 > shaft. I believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing.=20 >=20 > > -ID of the stator=20 > It's all put together, so that number is rather difficult to come by=20 > right now. I believe it is right at 3". I'm thinking the bolt circle=20 > was 3.375" diameter, but I'm going to have to reserve the right to be wro= ng.=20 > > -Thickness=20 > 1.75"=20 >=20 >=20 > I fabricated a fiberglass shield that sits between the stator and PSRU.= =20 > The object being to keep trash out of the rotor.=20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Todd, Ernest, George and All,
        Attaboy Todd !!............= ...Glad to see you jump in here with both feet.............Your installatio= n
will be the "BETA" project for Tracy's RD1X series of redrives as= both Ernest's and mine are non
standard with more space between redrive and dampener.............&nbs= p;
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from Todd Bartrim <bartri= m@gmail.com>: --------------

I just spent another hour m= easuring and thinking and tinkering. I overestimated how much I can gain by= moving the steel hub to the backside of the dampener plate. It will only g= ain me 5/32", but the rivet heads are another 3/32" so these can be changed= to countersunk rivet heads to give me a total additional clearance of 1/4"= , which will also facilitate mounting the rotor to the dampener plate. This= will give me 1 7/16" clearance to fit in the rotor.
   &= nbsp; A closer look at the rotor shows that the magnets are completely to t= he back edge of the rotor cup, so there is no further machining of this pos= sible. I don't expect the magnets would stand up to any machining very well= . However the face of the stator cup is 3/16" thick so I could take 3/32" o= ff this face. Since it will be mounted directly to the dampener face it won= 't be driven by the splined shaft, so this should be fine. This should make= the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me clearance of 1/64". Cutting it pretty = darned close but it should work.
    My biggest concern i= s that the steel center hub of the dampener plate that mates with the splin= ed input shaft is moved back resulting in 11/32" less spline contact, from = an original 1 13/16" down to 1 5/8" of spline contact. "Should" be enough? = Might have to get a "special" input shaft?

About the only other thin= g that I see that might be necessary is a slight circular groove on the bac= k of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a little more clearance for the windings= on the stator. This might not be required however the windings are not per= fectly equal around the stator, with the occasional one needing a little mo= re clearance. This circular groove would only have to be slight and would b= e located within the circle of bolts for the RD-1 so would have no issues w= ith interference or compromising strength.

For those interested in = weight (and why not) the stator and rotor weigh a combined 6.17 lbs

= Todd
C-FSTB


On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 -0700, To= dd Bartrim wrote:
Hi Ernest, Kelly and others;
   = ; I promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimenting this time around= , but here I go again.....
Today I went down to the local Harley shop an= d lost $381cad. And I just have the rotor and stator to show for it. I stil= l need to buy the regulator, but I figure I shouldn't throw that money away= until I can definitively make this work. Kelly, you probably did the right= thing by ordering from Compu-Fire, but there is something to be said for h= olding the parts in your hand and fitting & measuring it first. The sto= re owner is also a pilot and was quite helpful when I told him what it was = for. These are genuine Harley parts, so surely I paid for that privilege as= well.
    Stator 32amp #29970-88DHD
   = ; Rotor #29957-81BHD
Unfortunately, while I think I can make this work, = it ain't gonna be easy. It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 mounti= ng plate and to the flex plate dampener. The rotor will also require some a= lterations. This rotor is 1.52" thick and the space currently available bet= ween the dampener and the mount plate is 1 3/16". And the edge of the rotor= also lines up with the ring of bolt heads holding the RD-1 together. To ac= commodate this I plan to countersink these bolt heads so they are flush wit= h the mount plate. There also needs to be a path for the stator wire to pas= s under the edge of the rotor. I plan to machine a slot 3/16" deep x 1/4" w= ide x 1.5" long into the backside of the mount plate. There will have to be= several mount bolts to fasten the stator in place which will pass through = the mount plate into the oil filled internals of the RD-1. I plan to drill = these holes and then machine an o-ring groove under the bolt heads. I belie= ve these will be located in an area where they will not interfere with the = sun gear so they will not need to be countersunk. That should be all that's= required of the mount plate, but that still only leaves 1 3/16" to fit in = a 1.52" thick rotor.
    The rotor will require the splin= ed center to be enlarged to fit over the dampener. I'll have this done on a= lathe and while it's on there, I'll have a little taken off both the face = and the back edge. I'll gain very little here, but I'll also ensure that th= ey are true.
    Now the dampener is where I think I can = make the required gains. The steel center hub is riveted to the front side = of the aluminium dampener plate. I think I can relocate this hub to the bac= k side of the dampener plate. This should give me an extra 3/8" to work wit= h. The backside of the center hub on this dampener plate will likely have t= o have 1/8" taken off the center to allow for the flywheel nut, but there i= s lots of material here. This part is a little hard to describe so I'll tak= e pics as I go. And surely there'll be something I'm overlooking. But I'm b= etting $381 that I can do it.
    This will require the s= ervices of a machinist and as luck would have it, the latest guy I signed o= nto play on my hockey team happens to be a machinist out at the mill I work= at. So I'll get him working on some of this next week.

Todd
C-FS= TB



On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:53 +0000= , Kelly Troyer wrote:

 
Ernest and Todd,
  &nb= sp;    Ernest what is output amps of the system that you bou= ght ??.............I just sprung for the
"Compu-Fire" 40 amp system.....= ...........Link attached...............Sure hope it works as it is
fairl= y pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I am using a aut= o trans bell housing
between engine and RD1C redrive.............
&nb= sp;
http://www.com= pufire.com/harley-main.html
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B = ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= BR>
-------------- Original message from Ernest Christley <echri= stley@nc.rr.com>: --------------


> Todd Bartrim wrote: > > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. I didn't expect you up so la= te on
> > your side of the continent.
> I've been trying t= o get a business going. Selling software for the
> sport of wrestlin= g. It seems like I don't ever sleep anymore.
>
> > Is your= s a genuine Harley part?
> No. It's an aftermarket part.
> &g= t; How about dimensions?
> > -OD of the rotor
> Just over = 6". You'll want at least 6.25" for clearance. From memory,
> ID is j= ust over 1.5" I believe. It's a fairly tight fit on the sun gear
> s= haft. I believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing.
>
> > -I= D of the stator
> It's all put together, so that number is rather di= fficult to come by
> right now. I believe it is right at 3". I'm thi= nking the bolt circle
> was 3.375" diameter, but I'm going to have t= o reserve the right to be wrong.
> > -Thickness
> 1.75" >
>
> I fabricated a fiberglass shield that sits between= the stator and PSRU.
> The object being to keep trash out of the ro= tor.
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3280_1241375908_0--