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(d154-5-222-193.bchsia.telus.net [154.5.222.193]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m17sm7922222waf.26.2009.05.03.02.16.25 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 02:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Harley Davidson Generator From: Todd Bartrim To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-6DBlhXtBJ9GOYYs3Ciyo" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 02:14:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1241342091.20787.59.camel@Endurance> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 --=-6DBlhXtBJ9GOYYs3Ciyo Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just spent another hour measuring and thinking and tinkering. I overestimated how much I can gain by moving the steel hub to the backside of the dampener plate. It will only gain me 5/32", but the rivet heads are another 3/32" so these can be changed to countersunk rivet heads to give me a total additional clearance of 1/4", which will also facilitate mounting the rotor to the dampener plate. This will give me 1 7/16" clearance to fit in the rotor. A closer look at the rotor shows that the magnets are completely to the back edge of the rotor cup, so there is no further machining of this possible. I don't expect the magnets would stand up to any machining very well. However the face of the stator cup is 3/16" thick so I could take 3/32" off this face. Since it will be mounted directly to the dampener face it won't be driven by the splined shaft, so this should be fine. This should make the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me clearance of 1/64". Cutting it pretty darned close but it should work. My biggest concern is that the steel center hub of the dampener plate that mates with the splined input shaft is moved back resulting in 11/32" less spline contact, from an original 1 13/16" down to 1 5/8" of spline contact. "Should" be enough? Might have to get a "special" input shaft? About the only other thing that I see that might be necessary is a slight circular groove on the back of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a little more clearance for the windings on the stator. This might not be required however the windings are not perfectly equal around the stator, with the occasional one needing a little more clearance. This circular groove would only have to be slight and would be located within the circle of bolts for the RD-1 so would have no issues with interference or compromising strength. For those interested in weight (and why not) the stator and rotor weigh a combined 6.17 lbs Todd C-FSTB On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 -0700, Todd Bartrim wrote: > Hi Ernest, Kelly and others; > I promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimenting this time > around, but here I go again..... > Today I went down to the local Harley shop and lost $381cad. And I > just have the rotor and stator to show for it. I still need to buy the > regulator, but I figure I shouldn't throw that money away until I can > definitively make this work. Kelly, you probably did the right thing > by ordering from Compu-Fire, but there is something to be said for > holding the parts in your hand and fitting & measuring it first. The > store owner is also a pilot and was quite helpful when I told him what > it was for. These are genuine Harley parts, so surely I paid for that > privilege as well. > Stator 32amp #29970-88DHD > Rotor #29957-81BHD > Unfortunately, while I think I can make this work, it ain't gonna be > easy. It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 mounting plate and > to the flex plate dampener. The rotor will also require some > alterations. This rotor is 1.52" thick and the space currently > available between the dampener and the mount plate is 1 3/16". And the > edge of the rotor also lines up with the ring of bolt heads holding > the RD-1 together. To accommodate this I plan to countersink these > bolt heads so they are flush with the mount plate. There also needs to > be a path for the stator wire to pass under the edge of the rotor. I > plan to machine a slot 3/16" deep x 1/4" wide x 1.5" long into the > backside of the mount plate. There will have to be several mount bolts > to fasten the stator in place which will pass through the mount plate > into the oil filled internals of the RD-1. I plan to drill these holes > and then machine an o-ring groove under the bolt heads. I believe > these will be located in an area where they will not interfere with > the sun gear so they will not need to be countersunk. That should be > all that's required of the mount plate, but that still only leaves 1 > 3/16" to fit in a 1.52" thick rotor. > The rotor will require the splined center to be enlarged to fit > over the dampener. I'll have this done on a lathe and while it's on > there, I'll have a little taken off both the face and the back edge. > I'll gain very little here, but I'll also ensure that they are true. > Now the dampener is where I think I can make the required gains. > The steel center hub is riveted to the front side of the aluminium > dampener plate. I think I can relocate this hub to the back side of > the dampener plate. This should give me an extra 3/8" to work with. > The backside of the center hub on this dampener plate will likely have > to have 1/8" taken off the center to allow for the flywheel nut, but > there is lots of material here. This part is a little hard to describe > so I'll take pics as I go. And surely there'll be something I'm > overlooking. But I'm betting $381 that I can do it. > This will require the services of a machinist and as luck would > have it, the latest guy I signed onto play on my hockey team happens > to be a machinist out at the mill I work at. So I'll get him working > on some of this next week. > > Todd > C-FSTB > > > > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:53 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > > > > > > Ernest and Todd, > > Ernest what is output amps of the system that you > > bought ??.............I just sprung for the > > "Compu-Fire" 40 amp system................Link > > attached...............Sure hope it works as it is > > fairly pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I am > > using a auto trans bell housing > > between engine and RD1C redrive............. > > > > http://www.compufire.com/harley-main.html > > -- > > Kelly Troyer > > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > > > > -------------- Original message from Ernest Christley > > : -------------- > > > > > > > Todd Bartrim wrote: > > > > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. I didn't expect you > > up so late on > > > > your side of the continent. > > > I've been trying to get a business going. Selling software > > for the > > > sport of wrestling. It seems like I don't ever sleep > > anymore. > > > > > > > Is yours a genuine Harley part? > > > No. It's an aftermarket part. > > > > How about dimensions? > > > > -OD of the rotor > > > Just over 6". You'll want at least 6.25" for clearance. > > From memory, > > > ID is just over 1.5" I believe. It's a fairly tight fit on > > the sun gear > > > shaft. I believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing. > > > > > > > -ID of the stator > > > It's all put together, so that number is rather difficult > > to come by > > > right now. I believe it is right at 3". I'm thinking the > > bolt circle > > > was 3.375" diameter, but I'm going to have to reserve the > > right to be wrong. > > > > -Thickness > > > 1.75" > > > > > > > > > I fabricated a fiberglass shield that sits between the > > stator and PSRU. > > > The object being to keep trash out of the rotor. --=-6DBlhXtBJ9GOYYs3Ciyo Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just spent another hour measuring and thinking and tinkering. I overestim= ated how much I can gain by moving the steel hub to the backside of the dam= pener plate. It will only gain me 5/32", but the rivet heads are anoth= er 3/32" so these can be changed to countersunk rivet heads to give me= a total additional clearance of 1/4", which will also facilitate moun= ting the rotor to the dampener plate. This will give me 1 7/16" cleara= nce to fit in the rotor.
     A closer look at the rotor shows that the magnets = are completely to the back edge of the rotor cup, so there is no further ma= chining of this possible. I don't expect the magnets would stand up to any = machining very well. However the face of the stator cup is 3/16" thick= so I could take 3/32" off this face. Since it will be mounted directl= y to the dampener face it won't be driven by the splined shaft, so this sho= uld be fine. This should make the stator 1 27/64" thick giving me clea= rance of 1/64". Cutting it pretty darned close but it should work.
    My biggest concern is that the steel center hub of the d= ampener plate that mates with the splined input shaft is moved back resulti= ng in 11/32" less spline contact, from an original 1 13/16" down = to 1 5/8" of spline contact. "Should" be enough? Might have = to get a "special" input shaft?

About the only other thing that I see that might be necessary is a slight c= ircular groove on the back of the RD-1 mount plate to allow a little more c= learance for the windings on the stator. This might not be required however= the windings are not perfectly equal around the stator, with the occasiona= l one needing a little more clearance. This circular groove would only have= to be slight and would be located within the circle of bolts for the RD-1 = so would have no issues with interference or compromising strength.

For those interested in weight (and why not) the stator and rotor weigh a c= ombined 6.17 lbs

Todd
C-FSTB

On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:06 -0700, Todd Bartrim wrote:
Hi Ernest, Kelly and others;
    I promised myself I wasn't going to do any experimen= ting this time around, but here I go again.....
Today I went down to the local Harley shop and lost $381cad. And I just= have the rotor and stator to show for it. I still need to buy the regulato= r, but I figure I shouldn't throw that money away until I can definitively = make this work. Kelly, you probably did the right thing by ordering from Co= mpu-Fire, but there is something to be said for holding the parts in your h= and and fitting & measuring it first. The store owner is also a pilot a= nd was quite helpful when I told him what it was for. These are genuine Har= ley parts, so surely I paid for that privilege as well.
    Stator 32amp #29970-88DHD
    Rotor #29957-81BHD
Unfortunately, while I think I can make this work, it ain't gonna be ea= sy. It's going to require a few mods to the RD-1 mounting plate and to the = flex plate dampener. The rotor will also require some alterations. This rot= or is 1.52" thick and the space currently available between the dampen= er and the mount plate is 1 3/16". And the edge of the rotor also line= s up with the ring of bolt heads holding the RD-1 together. To accommodate = this I plan to countersink these bolt heads so they are flush with the moun= t plate. There also needs to be a path for the stator wire to pass under th= e edge of the rotor. I plan to machine a slot 3/16" deep x 1/4" w= ide x 1.5" long into the backside of the mount plate. There will have = to be several mount bolts to fasten the stator in place which will pass thr= ough the mount plate into the oil filled internals of the RD-1. I plan to d= rill these holes and then machine an o-ring groove under the bolt heads. I = believe these will be located in an area where they will not interfere with= the sun gear so they will not need to be countersunk. That should be all t= hat's required of the mount plate, but that still only leaves 1 3/16" = to fit in a 1.52" thick rotor.
    The rotor will require the splined center to be enla= rged to fit over the dampener. I'll have this done on a lathe and while it'= s on there, I'll have a little taken off both the face and the back edge. I= 'll gain very little here, but I'll also ensure that they are true.
    Now the dampener is where I think I can make the req= uired gains. The steel center hub is riveted to the front side of the alumi= nium dampener plate. I think I can relocate this hub to the back side of th= e dampener plate. This should give me an extra 3/8" to work with. The = backside of the center hub on this dampener plate will likely have to have = 1/8" taken off the center to allow for the flywheel nut, but there is = lots of material here. This part is a little hard to describe so I'll take = pics as I go. And surely there'll be something I'm overlooking. But I'm bet= ting $381 that I can do it.
    This will require the services of a machinist and as= luck would have it, the latest guy I signed onto play on my hockey team ha= ppens to be a machinist out at the mill I work at. So I'll get him working = on some of this next week.

Todd
C-FSTB

On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:53 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote:

 
Ernest and Todd,
       Ernest what is output amps of = the system that you bought ??.............I just sprung for the
"Compu-Fire" 40 amp system................Link attached..= .............Sure hope it works as it is
fairly pricey................I have plenty of room for it since I a= m using a auto trans bell housing
between engine and RD1C redrive.............
 
http://www.co= mpufire.com/harley-main.html
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

-------------- Original message from Ernest Christley <echri= stley@nc.rr.com>: --------------


> Todd Bartrim wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick reply Ernest. I didn't expect yo= u up so late on
> > your side of the continent.
> I've been trying to get a business going. Selling software= for the
> sport of wrestling. It seems like I don't ever sleep anymo= re.
>
> > Is yours a genuine Harley part?
> No. It's an aftermarket part.
> > How about dimensions?
> > -OD of the rotor
> Just over 6". You'll want at least 6.25" for cle= arance. From memory,
> ID is just over 1.5" I believe. It's a fairly tight f= it on the sun gear
> shaft. I believe the shear bolts are a 4" spacing. >
> > -ID of the stator
> It's all put together, so that number is rather difficult = to come by
> right now. I believe it is right at 3". I'm thinking = the bolt circle
> was 3.375" diameter, but I'm going to have to reserve= the right to be wrong.
> > -Thickness
> 1.75"
>
>
> I fabricated a fiberglass shield that sits between the sta= tor and PSRU.
> The object being to keep trash out of the rotor.=20
--=-6DBlhXtBJ9GOYYs3Ciyo--