X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3600033 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:34:46 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090428233410.NVGK15318.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:34:10 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id lBa61b0071CvZmk04Ba9s0; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:34:09 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=gjC66PzZuDoA:10 a=-nK-NJ9_RUEA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=hkeLUb1oAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=GuhQE8FFvxx2BxrFT2AA:9 a=-Yro3lRfTCtu398EXasA:7 a=XI11JFLDvJPw2u8r-6mN5G-xeRMA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=hTfdl3FsmA0A:10 a=HDmRhQlqU5thGg6j:21 a=YOeuN5wSltjunK0Q:21 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Xm-6bQi4AAAA:8 a=Kr0Ipdw-eWZnt6k25EwA:9 a=FSHQyhjO_w1hutGgAK8A:7 a=RqPVDrdeNHSgga9QFupIOBe_DBMA:4 a=7god_763jbgA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:34:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C9C81F.25E5FA60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C9C81F.25E5FA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bobby, Just to clarify, you have the radiators plumbed in series with the Mocal = between them? Are these actual auto style radiators, or the more typical = A/C evap cores? Do you have any pictures I could take a look at ? Thanks, Mike=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182 Mike, I have the largest (ECD54-329) plumbed between two 400 ci water = radiators. I can tell you it is very effective. With my cowling off, = extended full power ground runs I see oil temp trailing water temps by = 40-50 degrees. Water at 180-200. With lower cowl only, same conditions, the oil tracks the water a = little closer. 20-40 degrees. With full cowl the temps come up together = and stay together after about 170 degrees. I really think the ECD54-182 = would have worked. It would have also been much easer to plumb making = the hoses between my dual radiators much shorter and lighter.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182 Thanks, I understand the heat has to go somewhere. I havent done = enough flight testing to say for sure, but what I have done so far seems = to indicate that I have excess cooling capacity on the radiator side. = Time will tell. If there is excess capacity, a water-oil exchanger will = definitely simplify my installation considerably. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler = ECD54-182 Mike, You must upsize your radiator if you want to use the oil-to-water = exchanger as your sole oil cooler. It should work but you still need = enough heat exchanger to handle you BTU needs. So you would need a = 20-30% bigger radiator for things to work. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Mike Wills To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 9:21 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182 Todd, Are you using this as your sole means of oil cooling, or as a = supplement? I've always been intrigued by the idea of an oil-water = exchanger, but have yet to hear of anyone successfully using one as a = sole means of cooling a rotary in an aircraft application. Something = like this would sure simplify my plumbing and eliminate some weight. I'm = tempted. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Todd Bartrim=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182 Hi Guys Quite some while back Mark Sietle put a Mocal oil cooler in = his plane, which I was quite impressed with. Recently I began watching = ebay for one of these coolers and a few weeks ago I hit paydirt. IRC, = Mark was using the C43-330 which is a fine looking piece of = craftsmanship but are pricey little devils at $350 apiece. They are 330 = mm long and a single pass. The E54 series offer 25% greater cooling in a = comparable size, while the ECD54 series are dual core and have double = the cooling capacity as the comparable size C43 cooler, but are = prohibitively expensive at ~$800.=20 I managed to get mine for $275usd and it was still new, never = used. The seller had 2 of them and since I only took one there is still = another available. He indicated that he would re-list the other cooler = on ebay, but I haven't seen it yet or I'd have just posted the listing. = So if anyone is interested you can just contact him direct at = chines@pendragon-design.com .=20 I'm very impressed with mine as it is a very fine piece of = workmanship. It is only 182mm long but weighs in at just under 3lbs. = Attached are a few pics of it disassembled. Thought I'd pass it along.=20 Todd C-FSTB=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Can't afford a new spring wardrobe? Go shopping in your closet = instead! ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C9C81F.25E5FA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bobby,
 
Just to clarify, you have the radiators = plumbed in=20 series with the Mocal between them? Are these actual auto style = radiators, or=20 the more typical A/C evap cores? Do you have any pictures I could take a = look at=20 ?
 
Thanks,
 
Mike 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby J. = Hughes=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 = 4:09=20 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182

Mike,
 
I have the largest (ECD54-329) plumbed = between two 400 ci=20 water radiators. I can tell you it is very effective. With my cowling = off,=20 extended full power ground runs I see oil temp trailing water temps by = 40-50=20 degrees. Water at 180-200.
With lower cowl only, same conditions, the = oil tracks the=20 water a little closer. 20-40 degrees. With full cowl the temps come up = together and stay together after about 170 degrees. I really think the = ECD54-182 would have worked. It would have also been much easer to = plumb=20 making the hoses between my dual radiators much shorter and=20 lighter. 
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike=20 Wills
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:30 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler = ECD54-182

Thanks, I understand the heat has to = go=20 somewhere. I havent done enough flight testing to say for sure, but=20 what I have done so far seems to indicate that I have excess = cooling=20 capacity on the radiator side. Time will tell. If there is excess = capacity, a=20 water-oil exchanger will definitely simplify my installation=20 considerably.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 = 11:56=20 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Mocal Oil Cooler ECD54-182

Mike,
You must upsize your radiator if you want to = use the=20 oil-to-water exchanger as your sole oil cooler. It should work but = you still=20 need enough heat exchanger to handle you BTU needs. So you would = need a=20 20-30% bigger radiator for things to work.
Bill=20 Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills = <rv-4mike@cox.net>
To: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr = 2009=20 9:21 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mocal Oil Cooler = ECD54-182

Todd,
 
 Are you using this as your = sole means of=20 oil cooling, or as a supplement? I've always been intrigued by the = idea of=20 an oil-water exchanger, but have yet to hear of anyone successfully = using=20 one as a sole means of cooling a rotary in an aircraft application.=20 Something like this would sure simplify my plumbing and eliminate = some=20 weight. I'm tempted.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Todd=20 Bartrim
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, April 27, = 2009 11:57=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Mocal = Oil Cooler=20 ECD54-182

Hi Guys
    Quite some while back = Mark=20 Sietle put a Mocal oil cooler in his plane, which I was quite = impressed=20 with. Recently I began watching ebay for one of these coolers and = a few=20 weeks ago I hit paydirt. IRC, Mark was using the C43-330 which is = a fine=20 looking piece of craftsmanship but are pricey little devils at = $350=20 apiece. They are 330 mm long and a single pass. The E54 series = offer 25%=20 greater cooling in a comparable size, while the ECD54 series are = dual core=20 and have double the cooling capacity as the comparable size C43 = cooler,=20 but are prohibitively expensive at ~$800.
    I = managed=20 to get mine for $275usd and it was still new, never used. The = seller had 2=20 of them and since I only took one there is still another = available. He=20 indicated that he would re-list the other cooler on ebay, but I = haven't=20 seen it yet or I'd have just posted the listing. So if anyone is=20 interested you can just contact him direct at chines@pendragon-design.com=20 .
    I'm very impressed with mine as it is a = very fine=20 piece of workmanship. It is only 182mm long but weighs in at just = under=20 3lbs. Attached are a few pics of it disassembled.
Thought I'd = pass it=20 along.

Todd
C-FSTB=20
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l
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