Received-SPF: none
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net
Message-ID: <30EEA3BC208A4686BC7A1DD1AED56B77@wills>
From: "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-3599230@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs welding
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:16:34 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm no welding or brazing expert, but... I have a kit car clone of a Lotus 
Super Seven, a car designed and manufactered by Lotus in the late 50s - 60s. 
Caterham Cars bought the rights and still manufactures versions of the Super 
Seven today. All the Super Seven chassis are brazed and are recognized as 
being a bullet proof design. If it works in what is essentially a race car 
application...

Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:17 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs 
welding


> Bryan, I don't really know.  Brazing CAN BE stronger than a weld I am 
> told.
> However, I really don't know about a butt braze.  You might find that
> information on their site.
>
> http://www.aluminumrepair.com/?src=google&gclid=CNbZ0LnUk5oCFQJHxwod0AK5NQ
>
>
>
> I guess I would be a bit hesitant to use a butt braze (I am a bit
> conservative), but probably if done correctly would be as strong as the
> original metal.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs
> welding
>
> Ed,
> I understand what you're saying, but I wonder if this stuff would behave
> well in a butt joint.  It does look and act like solder.
> BW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:26 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs
> welding
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> No I clean the machined area (recess into casting), clean the end of the
> aluminum tube well, set the tube down in the recess and braze.  Use a high
> BTU flow propane torch for best results - something around 50,000 BTU. 
> Heat
> the casting not the tube and when you think you are close just "scratch" 
> one
> of the rods across the casting - when it starts to melt you are ready to
> braze the tubes - which will certainly be hot enough.
>
> There is no bead inside (but you would want to check that some did not run
> between outer wall of tube and casting and form a drop).  It really sort 
> of
> acts like solder and gets drawn down into the recess by capillary action 
> (I
> assume).  There is a small area where the braze rises up to meet the tube
> around the mating area and leaves a nice, smooth interface.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:09 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs
> welding
>
> Thanks Ed,
> I may have to get my welding feet wet with the HTS-2000.
> Doesn't sound like it would be an expensive experiment.  And if I can make
> it work, I'd save quite a bit of $$.
> BW
> Did you have to smooth the inside of your runners?  Or a better way of
> asking is, does this stuff form a bead similar to a weld that needs to be
> cleaned up for smooth air flow?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 9:19 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Brazing vs Epoxies : [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs 
> welding
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> Not being a welder, I was searching for some means of securing my tubes to
> some of the stock manifold castings I had machined for them.  JB Weld is
> great stuff, but I just never felt confident enough in it to hold things
> like that together.
>
> I tried several aluminum brazing rods and really had no success (surely my
> fault - other's must have), but I found an HTS-2000 supposedly 2nd
> generation rod and it worked great for me.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:34 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Epoxies vs welding
>
> Thanks Al,
> I was thinking of an application like holding seated runners in the 
> machined
> manifold.  Or possibly joining tubing together.  The ability to contour 
> and
> smooth this product would seem suited here where air flow is an issue. 
> But
> I don't know if it would stand up to all the rigors (vibration, heat, 
> etc.)
> Just throwing it out there since JB Weld is smoothing the ports on several
> intakes out there.
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Al Gietzen
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:25 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Epoxies vs welding
>
>
> On another note, has anyone contemplated using the two part puttys in 
> areas
> like intake manifold construction.  I saw some in HD that claims good for
> temps up to 450.  I'm hesitant, but this stuff seems to be a cousin to JB
> Weld.
> Bryan
>
> JB weld ( and similar) is wonderful stuff that adheres to almost anything,
> and is amazingly strong.  So if need things to hold together and make a 
> good
> seal - great.  But if you need real strength, anything that just adheres 
> to
> the surface is not going to be as strong as a good weld.  So consider your
> application, and what it has to do, and then decide.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Al G
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: 
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>