X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f12.google.com ([209.85.221.12] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3497198 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:30:58 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.12; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk5 with SMTP id 5so3394733qyk.19 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:30:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=dStPycy5yy52wa+TWAqIap3KHjlWf3Ch1wyV/gFZqvg=; b=LZuxu8fWy7AN7ZGd9WRpVyCoUPjuwrqE8V1Ah9aoDTEXz58ypi0XlbBsv7MpcFO0LL ghWK0JCQIFqkrykoMpaDDZc4s+eUItiHkzKWEL/InUZUt/HOVmqutkh8hDYa3tuzaJ6m UIApD/92Vb1lO0Rjt4DMKUS6TH+aavZWV7V4c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=QxGSTi9upZMBb6Fkp5sZuJ3bBs/MrRDiH/fCk5YL6CoyTvk70/9hO/Sj20qXKMs6H3 bHTp+7GDborNZSbVgaZlkKHs0W9vbzP3t2gmDUhABPzYKTtzMXu7VZcK4iG2cnezYNQW /dykquO8A0o/invI56gVi+NuSpam3e8EF3SbE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.80.205 with SMTP id u13mr10423102qak.356.1234888220961; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:30:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:30:20 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 98c1f31eaba9f12b Message-ID: <1b4b137c0902170830s4c37fca7lbf2dae71d48dd84e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Second flight From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cd5acbf6bf904631fd161 --0015175cd5acbf6bf904631fd161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Again, it is very important to understand what is happening. Without this understanding, a builder is working in the dark. Fuel delivery is not doubled when the EC2/3 goes from staged (2 injectors) to unstaged (4 injectors). The controller cuts the pulse length to about 1/2 when this happens so the net effect on fuel delivery is very small. Th= e amount that does change should be tuned out by using Mode 6 PRIOR to any MA= P table tuning. See the previous message on this subject. When in doubt, RTFM! One caveat. The manual has been updated many times over the years. If you don't have a current edition, feel free to ask for = a MS Word copy of the manual via email but be sure your controller has been updated to match the documentation. Tracy On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > Great news Mike; your accomplishment in only 2 flights is amazing. > > I'm flying without an EC2/3 at the moment (thinking of getting the EC3) b= ut > am not seeing the staging point stumbling you described. One experience I= 've > had was the staging point being effectively absent, as per an earlier pos= t > (from Chris Barber?) at power settings in excess of 20" MAP the secondary > injectors were simply not active =85 I spoke to Tracy about it and I rese= t the > staging point to 17" MAP =85 this required a complete retune of the MAP t= able, > especially above the new setting, as now the fuel delivery was approximat= ely > double. > > Jeff > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mike Wills > *Sent:* Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:52 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Second flight > > > > Spent the last month addressing issues uncovered during my first flight. > Today was the day for flight number 2. OAT was in the low 50s. Temps duri= ng > climbout up to 6,000 were good. Leveled out and stayed at full throttle f= or > a couple of minutes just to see what happens. Saw indicated airspeed in t= he > mid 150KTS range. RPM was 5500. Both were still creeping up when I thrott= led > back. Looks like I may be slightly over-propped. Temps still fine. > > > > Throttled back to 5000 RPM and just flew racetracks over the airport for > an hour. My flight test area is very restrictive. I've got a huge piece o= f > the desert to the east but have to cross a 3500' mountain and 30 - 40 mil= es > of rugged terrain to get there. Not until I have a few more hours on it i= n > flight and have 100% confidence. I have the Mexican border 2 miles south, > Class B 2 miles north and the Pacific Ocean 5 miles west. So racetracks o= ver > the airport are going to be the norm for a few hours. > > > > So, 5,000', 5,000 RPM, roughly 20 - 21" MAP, and indicating 140 KTS. Tem= ps > 170 on the coolant and 168 on the oil. I've already met my goal for this > airplane on the second flight - this airplane is a little faster than my = old > RV-6A was at equal power settings. The -6A had a 160 HP Lyc in it. > > > > Looks like the revised static system has solved my airspeed indication > problems. Stall speeds are in line with the Vans book numbers and airspee= d > correlates pretty well with the GPS groundspeed. Still need more left tri= m > tab. > > > > The engine ran great. Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without eithe= r > having an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent > the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pre= tty > well done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with > mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM = and > spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine running smoother t= han > it ever has and now have it idling nicely at 1350 RPM. Thats 300 RPM lowe= r > than I was ever able to get it previously. In my opinion you really HAVE = to > have some sort of indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to > effectively tune it. > > > > The only hiccup was when I came in to land. Tower asked for me to extend > my downwind for traffic so I added a little power to hold altitude. And > ended up setting the power right at the injector staging point, which sti= ll > seems to run a little lean. Nothing like having the engine cough just as = the > runway is receding over your left shoulder. Took me a couple of seconds t= o > realize what was going on and then added a little power and that cleared = it > up. > > > > Then managed to bounce the landing. How many landings can I log on one > approach? Oh well, I guess I'm a little tailwheel rusty. And without the > cowl cheeks the view over the nose is very different so I havent quite go= t > the pitch attitude figured out yet. > > > > Other impressions. The airplane is loud, but not painfully so. At least > not from the pilot's seat. The handling and control power still seem quit= e a > bit better than my RV-6A (which was great). Not really clear why but most= of > my flying in the -6A I had someone in the right seat so maybe the weight? > Other than the rudder, the airplane flies perfectly straight. > > > > All things considered I'm real happy. This flight was considerably less > stressful than the first and I actually was able to enjoy it. I honestly > dont remember a lot of the first flight. Also, I took my glider data logg= er > with me on this flight. I havent downloaded it yet, but when I do I'll kn= ow > more about speeds, climb rate, etc. > > > > Dont know how you guys feel about these flight reports. Give me some > feedback if you want more as my testing progresses. I know that I like > reading about other's flight experiences as it motivated me to keep going= . > After 13 years of building I'll tell you, its worth it. Now I wish I'd > pressed harder to get it done sooner. > > > > Next flight will have to wait until I get gear leg stiffeners added. > Classic RV - pretty bad shimmy on the roll out after landing. 38.5 hours = to > go! > > > > Mike Wills > > RV-4 N144MW > --0015175cd5acbf6bf904631fd161 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Again, it is very important to understand what is happening.  Without = this understanding, a builder is working in the dark.

 Fuel del= ivery is not doubled when the EC2/3 goes from staged (2 injectors) to unsta= ged (4 injectors).  The controller cuts the pulse length to about 1/2 = when this happens so the net effect on fuel delivery is very small.  T= he amount that does change should be tuned out by using Mode 6 PRIOR to any= MAP table tuning.  See the previous message on this subject.

When in doubt, RTFM!  One caveat. The manual has been updated many= times over the years.  If you don't have a current edition, feel = free to ask for a MS Word copy of the manual via email but be sure your con= troller has been updated to match the documentation.

Tracy

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:18 A= M, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

Great news Mik= e; your accomplishment in only 2 flights is amazing.

I'm flying wit= hout an EC2/3 at the moment (thinking of getting the EC3) but am not seeing the staging point stumbling you describe= d. One experience I've had was the staging point being effectively absent, as per an earlier post (from Chris Barber?) at power settings in excess of 20" MAP the secondary injectors were simply not active =85 I spoke to Tracy about it and I reset the staging point to 17" MAP =85 this required a complete retune of the MAP table, especially above the new setting, as now = the fuel delivery was approximately double.

Jeff

 <= /p>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills


Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Second flight

 

Spent the last month addressing issues uncovered during my first flight. Today wa= s the day for flight number 2. OAT was in the low 50s. Temps during climbout = up to 6,000 were good. Leveled out and stayed at full throttle for a couple of minutes just to see what happens. Saw indicated airspeed in the mid 150KTS range. RPM was 5500. Both were still creeping up when I throttled back. Loo= ks like I may be slightly over-propped. Temps still fine.

 

 Throttled back to 5000 RPM and just flew racetracks over the airport for an hour. My flight test area is very restrictive. I've got a huge piece of the dese= rt to the east but have to cross a 3500' mountain and 30 - 40 miles of rugged= terrain to get there. Not until I have a few more hours on it in flight and have 10= 0% confidence. I have the Mexican border 2 miles south, Class B 2 miles north = and the Pacific Ocean 5 miles west. So racetracks over the airport are going to= be the norm for a few hours.

 

 So, 5,000', 5,000 RPM, roughly 20 - 21" MAP, and indicating 140 KTS. T= emps 170 on the coolant and 168 on the oil. I've already met my goal for this airplane on the second flight - this airplane is a little faster than = my old RV-6A was at equal power settings. The -6A had a 160 HP Lyc in it.

 

 Looks like the revised static system has solved my airspeed indication problems. Stall speeds are in line with the Vans book numbers and airspeed correlates pretty well with the GPS groundspeed. Still need more left trim tab.=

 

 The engine ran great. Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either h= aving an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the= better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On = my first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine running smoother than it ever has= and now have it idling nicely at 1350 RPM. Thats 300 RPM lower than I was ever = able to get it previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to have some sort = of indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune it.

 

 The only hiccup was when I came in to land. Tower asked for me to extend my downwind for traffic so I added a little power to hold altitude. And ended = up setting the power right at the injector staging point, which still seems to= run a little lean. Nothing like having the engine cough just as the runway is receding over your left shoulder. Took me a couple of seconds to realize wh= at was going on and then added a little power and that cleared it up.

 

 Then managed to bounce the landing. How many landings can I log on one approach?= Oh well, I guess I'm a little tailwheel rusty. And without the cowl cheeks= the view over the nose is very different so I havent quite got the pitch attitu= de figured out yet.

 

 Other impressions. The airplane is loud, but not painfully so. At least not from = the pilot's seat. The handling and control power still seem quite a bit bet= ter than my RV-6A (which was great). Not really clear why but most of my flying in t= he -6A I had someone in the right seat so maybe the weight? Other than the rud= der, the airplane flies perfectly straight.

 

 All things considered I'm real happy. This flight was considerably less str= essful than the first and I actually was able to enjoy it. I honestly dont remembe= r a lot of the first flight. Also, I took my glider data logger with me on this flight. I havent downloaded it yet, but when I do I'll know more about = speeds, climb rate, etc.

 

 Dont know how you guys feel about these flight reports. Give me some feedback if= you want more as my testing progresses. I know that I like reading about other&= #39;s flight experiences as it motivated me to keep going. After 13 years of buil= ding I'll tell you, its worth it. Now I wish I'd pressed harder to get i= t done sooner.

 

 Next flight will have to wait until I get gear leg stiffeners added. Classic RV = - pretty bad shimmy on the roll out after landing. 38.5 hours to go!

 

Mike Wills

RV-4 N144MW


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