X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3496187 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:02:54 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090216220217.KPUX21647.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:02:17 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id Gm2E1b0051CvZmk04m2Hts; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:02:17 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=mQ3Qg1ZyGJ3YAHT8lk4A:9 a=OSX2JpsKWpGqhQQ3vukA:7 a=UGC5__JJl1eDULSFgJoab1ejof8A:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=ZKlmZI38X7UA:10 a=cub-4sy0yJ8T482Tma8A:9 a=TEmAZgj5e02xA5l0gIEA:7 a=tVPm3054YHSeQCRMEAhVCxBf_nQA:4 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=ct1jHBItfXcA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <003f01c99082$3b848aa0$38556944@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Second flight Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:02:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C9903F.2D14FF60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C9903F.2D14FF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, I thought about raising it, but not sure where I would raise it to? At = some point I think its inevitable that no matter where its set, you'll = end up there. I'm inclined to leave it where it is, try to tune it a = little better, and gain some flight experience with it to see if it = really is a problem set where it is or if I can work around it. One of the issues I had this past weekend was that the EC2 completely = lost the staging point. I have no idea how or why. I was using Mode 9 to = fine tune things. Thought I had finally cured the hiccup at the staging = point as it ran very smooth where previously it had always stumbled a = little bit. Then I ran the throttle on up and for some reason my tach = readout on my engine monitor went to 0 when I hit 4600 RPM. I quit and = went home. Thought about it some and theorized that if the secondary = injectors were no longer working then it could be that at high power the = duty cycle on the primaries was so high it wouldnt trigger the tach (my = tach is tied to one of the primaries). Went back the next day and tested = - sure enough the secondaries were not coming on. Reset the staging = point on the EC2 and the staging hiccup was back. And the tach is once = again functional. I cant explain what happened to cause it to barf. = Without putting a scope on the injector driver line I dont know for sure = what the duty cycle is, but if its high enough to kill the tach I dont = think I want to run it that high. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:53 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Second flight Mike, Great report !!................Keep them coming as I and most of = the group that are not=20 in the air yet live for the flight reports of those of the group that = are in the air........The=20 info on tuning the EC2 is invaluable reference for when each of us = takes to the air......... You probably have already thought of this but raising the = injector staging point (MP) is a way to avoid having the EC2 trying to stage at your approach = power setting...IMHO The group are always happy to hear any flight report even if it = is only for a Saturday morning $100.00 hamburger run !!................ =20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" = : --------------=20 Spent the last month addressing issues uncovered during my first = flight. Today was the day for flight number 2. OAT was in the low 50s. = Temps during climbout up to 6,000 were good. Leveled out and stayed at = full throttle for a couple of minutes just to see what happens. Saw = indicated airspeed in the mid 150KTS range. RPM was 5500. Both were = still creeping up when I throttled back. Looks like I may be slightly = over-propped. Temps still fine. Throttled back to 5000 RPM and just flew racetracks over the = airport for an hour. My flight test area is very restrictive. I've got a = huge piece of the desert to the east but have to cross a 3500' mountain = and 30 - 40 miles of rugged terrain to get there. Not until I have a few = more hours on it in flight and have 100% confidence. I have the Mexican = border 2 miles south, Class B 2 miles north and the Pacific Ocean 5 = miles west. So racetracks over the airport are going to be the norm for = a few hours. So, 5,000', 5,000 RPM, roughly 20 - 21" MAP, and indicating 140 = KTS. Temps 170 on the coolant and 168 on the oil. I've already met my = goal for this airplane on the second flight - this airplane is a little = faster than my old RV-6A was at equal power settings. The -6A had a 160 = HP Lyc in it. Looks like the revised static system has solved my airspeed = indication problems. Stall speeds are in line with the Vans book numbers = and airspeed correlates pretty well with the GPS groundspeed. Still need = more left trim tab. The engine ran great. Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without = either having an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. = I spent the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I = had it pretty well done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of = time fiddling with mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I = installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the = engine running smoother than it ever has and now have it idling nicely = at 1350 RPM. Thats 300 RPM lower than I was ever able to get it = previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to have some sort of = indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune it. The only hiccup was when I came in to land. Tower asked for me to = extend my downwind for traffic so I added a little power to hold = altitude. And ended up setting the power right at the injector staging = point, which still seems to run a little lean. Nothing like having the = engine cough just as the runway is receding over your left shoulder. = Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on and then added = a little power and that cleared it up. Then managed to bounce the landing. How many landings can I log on = one approach? Oh well, I guess I'm a little tailwheel rusty. And without = the cowl cheeks the view over the nose is very different so I havent = quite got the pitch attitude figured out yet. Other impressions. The airplane is loud, but not painfully so. At = least not from the pilot's seat. The handling and control power still = seem quite a bit better than my RV-6A (which was great). Not really = clear why but most of my flying in the -6A I had someone in the right = seat so maybe the weight? Other than the rudder, the airplane flies = perfectly straight. All things considered I'm real happy. This flight was considerably = less stressful than the first and I actually was able to enjoy it. I = honestly dont remember a lot of the first flight. Also, I took my glider = data logger with me on this flight. I havent downloaded it yet, but when = I do I'll know more about speeds, climb rate, etc. Dont know how you guys feel about these flight reports. Give me = some feedback if you want more as my testing progresses. I know that I = like reading about other's flight experiences as it motivated me to keep = going. After 13 years of building I'll tell you, its worth it. Now I = wish I'd pressed harder to get it done sooner. Next flight will have to wait until I get gear leg stiffeners = added. Classic RV - pretty bad shimmy on the roll out after landing. = 38.5 hours to go! Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C9903F.2D14FF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Kelly,
 
 I thought about raising it, but = not sure=20 where I would raise it to? At some point I think its inevitable that no = matter=20 where its set, you'll end up there. I'm inclined to leave it where it = is, try to=20 tune it a little better, and gain some flight experience with it to see = if it=20 really is a problem set where it is or if I can work around = it.
 
 One of the issues I had this past = weekend was=20 that the EC2 completely lost the staging point. I have no idea how or = why. I was=20 using Mode 9 to fine tune things. Thought I had finally cured the hiccup = at the=20 staging point as it ran very smooth where previously it had always = stumbled a=20 little bit. Then I ran the throttle on up and for some reason my tach = readout on=20 my engine monitor went to 0 when I hit 4600 RPM. I quit and went home. = Thought=20 about it some and theorized that if the secondary injectors were no = longer=20 working then it could be that at high power the duty cycle on the=20 primaries was so high it wouldnt trigger the tach (my tach is tied = to one=20 of the primaries). Went back the next day and tested - sure enough the=20 secondaries were not coming on. Reset the staging point on the EC2 and = the=20 staging hiccup was back. And the tach is once again functional. I cant = explain=20 what happened to cause it to barf. Without putting a scope on the = injector=20 driver line I dont know for sure what the duty cycle is, but if its high = enough=20 to kill the tach I dont think I want to run it that high.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 = 10:53=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Second = flight

  Mike,
     Great report !!................Keep them = coming=20 as I and most of the group that are not
in the air yet live for the flight reports of those of the group = that are=20 in the air........The
info on tuning the EC2 is invaluable reference for when each = of us=20 takes to the air.........
 
     You probably have already thought of = this but=20 raising the injector staging point (MP)
is a way to avoid having the EC2 trying to stage = at your=20 approach power setting...IMHO
 
      The group are always happy to hear = any=20 flight report even if it is only for a Saturday
morning $100.00 hamburger run = !!................  
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>: = --------------=20

Spent the last month addressing = issues=20 uncovered during my first flight. Today was the day for flight = number 2. OAT=20 was in the low 50s. Temps during climbout up to 6,000 were good. = Leveled out=20 and stayed at full throttle for a couple of minutes just to see what = happens. Saw indicated airspeed in the mid 150KTS range. RPM was = 5500. Both=20 were still creeping up when I throttled back. Looks like I may be = slightly=20 over-propped. Temps still fine.
 
 Throttled back to 5000 RPM = and just flew=20 racetracks over the airport for an hour. My flight test area is very = restrictive. I've got a huge piece of the desert to the east but = have to=20 cross a 3500' mountain and 30 - 40 miles of rugged terrain to get = there. Not=20 until I have a few more hours on it in flight and have 100% = confidence. I=20 have the Mexican border 2 miles south, Class B 2 miles north and the = Pacific=20 Ocean 5 miles west. So racetracks over the airport are going to be = the norm=20 for a few hours.
 
 So, 5,000', 5,000 RPM, = roughly 20 - 21"=20 MAP, and indicating 140 KTS. Temps 170 on the coolant and 168 on the = oil.=20 I've already met my goal for this airplane on the second flight = - this=20 airplane is a little faster than my old RV-6A was at equal power = settings.=20 The -6A had a 160 HP Lyc in it.
 
 Looks like the revised static = system has=20 solved my airspeed indication problems. Stall speeds are in line = with the=20 Vans book numbers and airspeed correlates pretty well with the GPS=20 groundspeed. Still need more left trim tab.
 
 The engine ran great. Anyone = trying to=20 tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's = EFISM,=20 you're wasting your time. I spent the better part of a year tweaking = the MAP=20 table and thought I had it pretty well done. On my first flight I = spent a=20 fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had a couple of rough = running=20 spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the = process I=20 got the engine running smoother than it ever has and now have it = idling=20 nicely at 1350 RPM. Thats 300 RPM lower than I was ever able to get = it=20 previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to have some sort of=20 indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune=20 it.
 
 The only hiccup was when I = came in to=20 land. Tower asked for me to extend my downwind for traffic so I = added a=20 little power to hold altitude. And ended up setting the power right = at the=20 injector staging point, which still seems to run a little lean. = Nothing like=20 having the engine cough just as the runway is receding over your = left=20 shoulder. Took me a couple of seconds to realize what was going on = and then=20 added a little power and that cleared it up.
 
 Then managed to bounce the = landing. How=20 many landings can I log on one approach? Oh well, I guess I'm a = little=20 tailwheel rusty. And without the cowl cheeks the view over the nose = is very=20 different so I havent quite got the pitch attitude figured out=20 yet.
 
 Other impressions. The = airplane is loud,=20 but not painfully so. At least not from the pilot's seat. The = handling and=20 control power still seem quite a bit better than my RV-6A (which was = great).=20 Not really clear why but most of my flying in the -6A I had someone = in the=20 right seat so maybe the weight? Other than the rudder, the airplane = flies=20 perfectly straight.
 
 All things considered I'm = real happy.=20 This flight was considerably less stressful than the first and I = actually=20 was able to enjoy it. I honestly dont remember a lot of the first = flight.=20 Also, I took my glider data logger with me on this flight. I havent=20 downloaded it yet, but when I do I'll know more about speeds, climb = rate,=20 etc.
 
 Dont know how you guys feel = about these=20 flight reports. Give me some feedback if you want more as my testing = progresses. I know that I like reading about other's flight = experiences as=20 it motivated me to keep going. After 13 years of building I'll tell = you, its=20 worth it. Now I wish I'd pressed harder to get it done = sooner.
 
 Next flight will have to wait = until I get=20 gear leg stiffeners added. Classic RV - pretty bad shimmy on the = roll out=20 after landing. 38.5 hours to go!
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 = N144MW
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