X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3481965 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:44:26 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090207224348.NWTO8858.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:43:48 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis intake possibility Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:43:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01C9894B.A040E5D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcmJaFHfMCKSxzoCS5WX82DB0YatLgAC+vNA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090207224348.NWTO8858.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C9894B.A040E5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not Al, but my 0.02 is that if you have good mixture velocity in your intake then what you are using to get it is rather moot. In Al's case, he is using a three throat TWM TB and has a 3 rotor 20 B, so that clearly makes for a good match up. My two rotor was clearly "over throated" resulting in low air velocity and the only way to get good runner velocity was to have the engine over 8000 rpm - but, of course, prop load and no gear box to shift load precluded reaching that magic rpm regime - besides my prop tips would have been supersonic if I had. If I had used this TWM set up with 40 -45mm dia holes rather than the two 50 mm dia holes - my results would undoubtedly have been better. You really have to pay attention to the details - as that is where the devil is (so I've been told). Trying to put on a 2 rotor a three rotors induction system or vice versa is unlikely to give good results in either case. Matching your induction system to your engine size and rpm regime of operation is the core of getting good results. I agree with, Al. Its likely that using half of the four ports shown in the photo of the TWM TB would be a good combination. However, depending on how much you like to experiment and fabricate, you could try it with the 4 and if that failed to give you good results, you could down-size to two. Keep us posted, we all like to see experimentation. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:09 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis intake possibility Al, How is your set up different than the one Ed A. had that didn't work too well? It was also one throttle split into two runners. Bryan --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Al Gietzen wrote: From: Al Gietzen Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis intake possibility To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 3:04 PM Bryan; I use a 3-barrel TWM TB on my 20B with 44mm barrels. One barrel (which divides into the 2 runners) for each rotor. It seem to work quite well. As Ed mentioned, and supported by Paul Yaw?s work, high velocity in the barrel is a good thing. Maybe you could cut the thing in half and use 2 barrels? I use the injector port in the TB for MSD (Rochester) injectors, and use the stock primary in the housings. Al -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:57 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] renesis intake possibility Hello all, I have a chance to purchase a TWM throttle body(see attch pic) at a very low price. I have a couple questions for the group. The inlets are 42mm (appx 1.65 in.). Is this too big to the point that they would be incompatible with the injectors? I plan on using 1-1/8 and1-1/4 in runners. Also, the bosses are sized for Bosch, Rochestor, or Lucas injectors. Does this necessarily eliminate my using the stock Renesis injectors? This setup also would allow the use of a lightweight airbox thus simplifying the intake system from a manufacturing standpoint. Thanks in advance, Bryan RV7, Renesis,RD-1C,EC3,EM3 (in the pipeline I hear) ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C9894B.A040E5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Not Al, but my 0.02 is that if you = have good mixture velocity in your intake then what you are using to get it = is rather moot.

 

In Al’s case, he is using a = three throat TWM TB and has a 3 rotor 20 B, so that clearly =A0makes for a = good match up.=A0=A0=A0 My two rotor =A0was clearly “over throated” = resulting in low air velocity and the only way to get good runner velocity was to have = the engine over 8000 rpm – but, of course, prop load and no gear box = to shift load precluded reaching that magic rpm regime – besides my prop = tips would have been supersonic if I had.=A0 If I had used=A0 this TWM set up = with 40 -45mm dia holes rather than the two 50 mm dia holes – my results = would undoubtedly have been better.

 

You really have to pay attention to = the details – as that is where the devil is (so I’ve been = told).=A0 Trying to put on a 2 rotor a three rotors induction system =A0or vice = versa is unlikely to give good results in either case.=A0 Matching your induction = system to your engine size and rpm regime of operation is the core of getting = good results.

 

I agree with, Al.=A0 Its likely = that using half of the four ports shown in the photo of the TWM TB would be a good combination.=A0 However, depending on how much you like to experiment = and fabricate, you could try it with the 4 and if that failed to give you = good results, you could down-size to two.=A0

 

Keep us posted, we all like to see = experimentation.

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Saturday, February = 07, 2009 4:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = renesis intake possibility

 

Al,

How is your set up different than the one = Ed A. had that didn't work too well?  It was = also

one throttle split into two = runners.

Bryan
=
--- On Sat, 2/7/09, Al Gietzen = <ALVentures@cox.net><= /b> wrote:

From: Al = Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis intake possibility
To: "Rotary motors in = aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 3:04 PM

Bryan;

I use a 3-barrel TWM TB on my 20B with 44mm barrels.  One barrel (which divides into the 2 runners) for each = rotor. It seem to work quite well.  As Ed mentioned, and supported by = Paul Yaw=A2s work, high velocity in the barrel is a good = thing. Maybe you could cut the thing in half and use 2 barrels? I use the = injector port in the TB for MSD (Rochester) injectors, and use the stock primary in the = housings.

Al

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Saturday, = February 07, 2009 5:57 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = renesis intake possibility

 

Hello all,

I have a chance to purchase a TWM throttle body(see attch pic) at = a very low price.  I have a couple questions for the = group.

 

The inlets are 42mm (appx 1.65 in.).  Is this too big to the = point that they would be incompatible with the injectors?  I plan on = using 1-1/8 and1-1/4 in runners.

 

Also, the bosses are sized for Bosch, Rochestor, or Lucas = injectors.  Does this necessarily eliminate my using the stock Renesis = injectors?

 

This setup also would allow the use of a lightweight = airbox  thus simplifying the intake system from a manufacturing = standpoint.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

RV7, Renesis,RD-1C,EC3,EM3 (in the pipeline I = hear)

 

 

 

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