X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.189] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTPS id 3478659 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 15:47:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.189; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (d211-31-174-46.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.174.46]) by mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id n15KkKtD026675 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:46:22 +1100 Message-ID: <824FE92EA0334275A21CFF015DDFB74D@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Tube Thickness [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 06:46:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C98826.9F6C00C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-3, 04/28/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C98826.9F6C00C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Ed, I'm going that way also - there's no way around it IMHO. George (down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Tube Thickness [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold For what it's worth, George, I had my exhaust manifold made out of = the stainless steel pipe used for stair railing that Mark mentioned. = The walls are approx 0.10 -0.12" thick. Mine has lasted over 500 hours = and 10 years. It appears to be 304 SS, but I can not swear to that. = There is some minor scaling and it does eventually turn a rust color - = at least mine did. I've been very please with it. It's wall thickness = also makes it easier to weld in bungs for O2 and temperature sensors = than thinner wall tubing. Also it was much cheaper than buying SS = exhaust tubing and you could get just about any degree bend you wanted = from stock rather than paying cost for special bending. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold =20 Thanks Mark, I thickness of the tube is what I was after. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold =20 George,=20 =20 If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they were = 1/2" (12mm). I made them this thick so they would provide support for = the exhaust system. Tubes were a press fit and were welded from the = back side. That part of the design has worked great... although = probably heavier than necessary. =20 =20 Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material = that could be removed to lighten it up. But I agree that it would be = best to build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch. =20 Mark S. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark,=20 How thick was that again, 1.6mm ? George ( down under) =20 Robert,=20 Bite the bullet and make one from scratch, Just make the thick = flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe as suggested - = cheapest and best for the 3 rotor. Sounds a lot lighter than the cast manifold. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold =20 Robert,=20 =20 I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, = but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is = incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. = And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT = operation. And the passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I = could weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't = want to get rid of it because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto = installation where it would be useable. Maybe you could modify a = Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some welding, but it is = probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifold.=20 =20 The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I = built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks = like it would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using = this material on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material = was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see = the high heat that the pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. = They take a real beating. Try to space the muffler as far away from the = engine as possible. =20 =20 Mark S. =20 =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: Al and Greg, Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold = would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. = Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm = putting this 20B in a BD-4. Robert=20 =20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold =20 Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you = want to know one way it's done, let me know. Greg Ward Lancair 20B in progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold =20 =20 Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that came = with their engine that I could buy? =20 No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at = one when I got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for an aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion. =20 Al G =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C98826.9F6C00C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Ed,
I'm going that way also - there's no = way around it=20 IMHO.
George (down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Thursday, February 05, = 2009 10:58=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tube = Thickness=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

For what = it=92s worth,=20 George,  I had my exhaust manifold made out of the stainless = steel pipe=20 used for stair railing that Mark mentioned.  The walls are approx = 0.10=20 -0.12=94 thick.  Mine has lasted over 500 hours and 10 = years.  It=20 appears to be 304 SS, but I can not swear to that.  There is some = minor=20 scaling  and it does eventually turn a rust color =96 at least = mine=20 did.  I=92ve been very please with it.  It=92s wall = thickness also makes=20 it easier to weld in bungs for O2 and temperature sensors than thinner = wall=20 tubing.  Also it was much cheaper than buying SS exhaust tubing = and you=20 could get just about any degree bend you wanted from stock rather than = paying=20 cost for special bending.

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, = 2009 5:15=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 manifold

 

Thanks=20 Mark,

I thickness of the tube = is what I=20 was after.

George ( down=20 under)

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Mark = Steitle=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 = AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

 

George, =

 

If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust = flanges=20 were, they were 1/2" (12mm).  I made them this thick = so they=20 would provide support for the exhaust system.  Tubes were = a press=20 fit and were welded from the back side.  That part of the = design=20 has worked great... although probably heavier than = necessary. =20

 

Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a = bunch of=20 cast material that could be removed to lighten it up.  But = I agree=20 that it would be best to build a lightweight exhaust system from=20 scratch.

 

Mark=20 S.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George = Lendich=20 <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:

Mark,=20

How thick was that = again, 1.6mm=20 ?

George ( down=20 under)

 

Robert,=20

Bite the bullet and = make one=20 from scratch, Just make the thick flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and = use the=20 hand rail pipe as suggested - cheapest and best for the 3=20 rotor.

Sounds a lot lighter = than the=20 cast manifold.

George ( down=20 under)

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Mark Steitle =

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Sent:=20 Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 = AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

 

Robert, =

 

I have one that came with my 20B.  = I don't=20 want to sound negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use = on an=20 a/c.  First, it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to = incorporate the twin turbos.  And it is made of cast iron, so = it=20 would probably melt at prolonged WOT operation.  And the = passages are very restrictive to = exhaust flow.  I=20 could weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish.  Sorry, = but I=20 don't want to get rid of it because I have plans for a 3-rotor = auto=20 installation where it would be useable.  Maybe you could = modify a=20 Renesis manifold to fit.  It would require some welding, but = it is=20 probably more likely to work than the original 20B=20 manifold. 

 

The cheapest manifold would be to use = 304SS=20 handrail material.  I built my first manifold using that = material and=20 after 100 hours it looks like it would last for a very long = time.  Ed=20 Anderson has been using this material on his a/c for a long=20 time.  My exhause flange material was 1/2" mild carbon steel = and it=20 was holding up fine as it doen'st see the high heat that the pipes = do.  The problem was with the mufflers.  They take a = real=20 beating.  Try to space the muffler as far away from the = engine as=20 possible. 

 

Mark = S.

 



 

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob = <rob@mum.edu>=20 wrote:

Al and=20 Greg,

Thanks for your = replys on this=20 subject. I realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was = hoping I=20 could widdle it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your = suggestion for doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a=20 BD-4.

Robert=20

 

Robert Bollinger
MR722 = MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000=20 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Greg Ward =

To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft

Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 = PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

 

Al, you don't want the stock = exhaust.  Get=20 one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, let me=20 know.

Greg=20 Ward

Lancair 20B in=20 progress

----- Original = Message=20 -----

From:=20 Al Gietzen =

Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 = PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B = manifold

 

 

Does anyone on = this list=20 have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their engine = that I=20 could buy?

 

No; but I=20 do know the thing is massively heavy.  I looked at one = when I got=20 my engine, and decided quickly it was not very interesting for = an=20 aircraft.  Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my=20 opinion.

 

Al=20 = G

 

 

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