X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from lincoln.lisco.com ([69.18.32.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3478010 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:17:43 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.32.37; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from DELL919SZF1 (76-76-233-100.lisco.net [76.76.233.100]) by lincoln.lisco.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F39812BF12 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:17:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "Rob" From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:16:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9877A.E192E470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9877A.E192E470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Do you think the 20B manifold could be lightened or would it be a waste = of time to even attempt it. Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Rob, I have a 20B and the manifold without the turbos is a very heavy chunk = of cast iron. I don't think it would be in danger of melting, but is = just too heavy. I do NOT believe the Renesis Exhaust manifold would be = made to fit practically. The Renesis has side ports with a rectangular = profile. The 20B is a 13B with an extra rotor and one of the spacings is = longer due to the intermediate housing. The best method is going to be a = built up manifold, aand several are available over the counter. Usually = expensive, but much less hassle. Racing Beat made one for using a single = turbo for racing in the past. I don't know if it is still available. Bill Jepson=20 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 9:34 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Rob,=20 The Renesis manifold has an inner shell, an outer shell, and a heat = shield on top of that. I'm not positive, but the inner shell could = possibly be made of inconel. The outer shell appears to be stainless = (probably 321).=20 Since the Renesis has three exhaust ports, I have often wondered if it = could be modified to work on a 3-rotor. Keep in mind that the port = spacing on the Renesis is the same while the 20B unequally spaced. = That's due to the one larger side housing that contains the 3rd main = bearing. So, if the ports are big enough, and the bolt pattern matches, = you would still have to add an extension between two of the ports to = make it line up. If that is all it requires to make it fit, it could be = worth a try. =20 Mark S. =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Rob wrote: I would be interested to know the weight. I didn't realize that a = cast exhaust manifold made for a 20B could actually melt. It sounds like = the Renesis manifold would be better.. Is the Renesis manifold stainless = steel or what? Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Robert,=20 I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, = but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is = incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. = And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT = operation. And the passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I = could weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't = want to get rid of it because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto = installation where it would be useable. Maybe you could modify a = Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some welding, but it is = probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifold.=20 The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I = built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks = like it would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using = this material on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material = was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see = the high heat that the pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. = They take a real beating. Try to space the muffler as far away from the = engine as possible. =20 Mark S. =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: Al and Greg, Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold = would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. = Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm = putting this 20B in a BD-4. Robert=20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you = want to know one way it's done, let me know. Greg Ward Lancair 20B in progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that = came with their engine that I could buy? No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at = one when I got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for an aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion. Al G -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C9877A.E192E470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
Do you think the 20B manifold could be = lightened or=20 would it be a waste of time to even attempt it.
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA = 52557
(641)472-7000=20 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, = 2009 12:46=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 manifold

Rob,
I have a 20B and the manifold without the = turbos is a=20 very heavy chunk of cast iron. I don't think it would be in danger of = melting,=20 but is just too heavy. I do NOT believe the Renesis Exhaust manifold = would be=20 made to fit practically. The Renesis has side ports with a rectangular = profile. The 20B is a 13B with an extra rotor and one of the spacings = is=20 longer due to the intermediate housing. The best method is going to be = a built=20 up manifold, aand several are available over the counter. Usually = expensive,=20 but much less hassle. Racing Beat made one for using a single turbo = for racing=20 in the past. I don't know if it is still available.
Bill=20 Jepson 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark = Steitle=20 <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 9:34=20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

Rob,
 
The Renesis manifold has an inner shell, an outer shell, and a = heat=20 shield on top of that.  I'm not positive, but the inner = shell could=20 possibly be made of inconel.  The outer shell appears to be=20 stainless (probably 321). 
 
Since the Renesis has three exhaust ports, I have often wondered = if it=20 could be modified to work on a 3-rotor.  Keep in mind that the = port=20 spacing on the Renesis is the same while the 20B unequally=20 spaced.  That's due to the one larger side housing that = contains the=20 3rd main bearing.  So, if the ports are big = enough, and=20 the bolt pattern matches, you would still have to add = an extension=20 between two of the ports to make it line up.  If that is all = it=20 requires to make it fit, it could be worth a = try.  
 
Mark S.  

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu> wrote:
I would be interested to know the = weight. I=20 didn't realize that a cast exhaust manifold made for a 20B could = actually=20 melt. It sounds like the Renesis manifold would be better.. = Is the=20 Renesis manifold stainless steel or what?
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA = 52557
(641)472-7000=20 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark = Steitle=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, February = 04, 2009=20 8:10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 20B=20 manifold

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to sound = negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an = a/c.  First,=20 it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the = twin=20 turbos.  And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably = melt at=20 prolonged WOT operation.  And the passages are very = restrictive to exhaust flow.  I could weigh mine = and send=20 some pictures if you wish.  Sorry, but I don't want to get = rid of it=20 because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it = would be=20 useable.  Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to = fit.  It=20 would require some welding, but it is probably more likely to work = than=20 the original 20B manifold. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail = material. =20 I built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours = it looks=20 like it would last for a very long time.  Ed Anderson has = been using=20 this material on his a/c for a long time.  My exhause = flange=20 material was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as = it=20 doen'st see the high heat that the pipes do.  The problem was = with=20 the mufflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space = the=20 muffler as far away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu>=20 wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on this = subject. I=20 realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could = widdle=20 it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion = for=20 doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA=20 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Greg Ward
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, February = 03, 2009=20 11:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 20B=20 manifold

Al, you don't want the stock = exhaust. =20 Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, = let me=20 know.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in=20 progress
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Al=20 Gietzen
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, = February 03,=20 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 20B=20 manifold

 
Does anyone on = this list=20 have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their engine = that I=20 could buy?
 
No; but I=20 do know the thing is massively heavy.  I looked at one = when I=20 got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for=20 an aircraft.  Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion.
 
Al=20 = G



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