X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.187] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTPS id 3477492 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:59:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.187; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (d211-31-174-46.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.174.46]) by mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id n156wwLt006615 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:58:59 +1100 Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 16:58:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C987B3.09CE2390" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-3, 04/28/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C987B3.09CE2390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, 3mm wall thickness, that's pretty thick. I will look for some of that. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Tubes were schedule 80, about .120" On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:15 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Thanks Mark, I thickness of the tube is what I was after. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold George,=20 If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they were = 1/2" (12mm). I made them this thick so they would provide support for = the exhaust system. Tubes were a press fit and were welded from the = back side. That part of the design has worked great... although = probably heavier than necessary. =20 Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material = that could be removed to lighten it up. But I agree that it would be = best to build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch. Mark S. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark,=20 How thick was that again, 1.6mm ? George ( down under) Robert,=20 Bite the bullet and make one from scratch, Just make the thick = flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe as suggested - = cheapest and best for the 3 rotor. Sounds a lot lighter than the cast manifold. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Robert,=20 I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound = negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it = is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin = turbos. And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at = prolonged WOT operation. And the passages are very restrictive to = exhaust flow. I could weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish. = Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because I have plans for a = 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable. Maybe you could = modify a Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some welding, but it = is probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifold.=20 The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. = I built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it = looks like it would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been = using this material on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange = material was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it = doen'st see the high heat that the pipes do. The problem was with the = mufflers. They take a real beating. Try to space the muffler as far = away from the engine as possible. =20 Mark S. =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: Al and Greg, Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the = manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some = how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm = putting this 20B in a BD-4. Robert=20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If = you want to know one way it's done, let me know. Greg Ward Lancair 20B in progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold = that came with their engine that I could buy? No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I = looked at one when I got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for an aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion. Al G ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C987B3.09CE2390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
3mm wall thickness, that's pretty = thick. I will=20 look for some of that.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, February 05, = 2009 11:07=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 manifold

Tubes were schedule 80, about .120"


On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:15 PM, George = Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:
Thanks Mark,
I thickness of the tube is what I = was=20 after.
George ( down under)
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark Steitle
To:=20 Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft Sent:=20 Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

George,
 
If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges = were, they=20 were 1/2" (12mm).  I made them this thick so they=20 would provide support for the exhaust system.  Tubes = were a=20 press fit and were welded from the back side.  That part = of the=20 design has worked great... although probably heavier than=20 necessary. 
 
Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast=20 material that could be removed to lighten it up.  But I = agree=20 that it would be best to build a lightweight exhaust system from=20 scratch.
 
Mark S.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George = Lendich=20 <lendich@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Mark,
How thick was that again, 1.6mm = ?
George ( down = under)
 
Robert,
Bite the bullet and make one = from scratch,=20 Just make the thick flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the = hand rail=20 pipe as suggested - cheapest and best for the 3 = rotor.
Sounds a lot lighter than the = cast=20 manifold.
George ( down = under)
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark Steitle
To:=20 Rotary motors=20 in aircraft Sent:=20 Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to = sound=20 negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an = a/c. =20 First, it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to = incorporate=20 the twin turbos.  And it is made of cast iron, so it = would=20 probably melt at prolonged WOT operation.  And the = passages=20 are very restrictive to exhaust flow.  I = could=20 weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish.  Sorry, = but I=20 don't want to get rid of it because I have plans for a 3-rotor = auto=20 installation where it would be useable.  Maybe you could = modify a=20 Renesis manifold to fit.  It would require some welding, = but it=20 is probably more likely to work than the original 20B=20 manifold. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail=20 material.  I built my first manifold using that material = and=20 after 100 hours it looks like it would last for a very long=20 time.  Ed Anderson has been using this material on his=20 a/c for a long time.  My exhause flange material was = 1/2"=20 mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see = the=20 high heat that the pipes do.  The problem was with the=20 mufflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space = the=20 muffler as far away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob = <rob@mum.edu> wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on = this subject.=20 I realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I = could=20 widdle it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your = suggestion for doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a=20 BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA=20 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg Ward=20
To:=20 Rotary=20 motors in aircraft Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

Al, you don't want the stock = exhaust. =20 Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's = done, let me=20 know.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in = progress
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Al Gietzen To:=20 Rotary=20 motors in aircraft Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold

 

Does = anyone on this=20 list have a 20B exhaust manifold that came = with their=20 engine that I could buy?

 

No;=20 but I do know the thing is massively heavy.  I = looked at=20 one when I got my engine, and decided quickly it was not = very=20 interesting for an aircraft.  Maybe if radically = modified .=20 . . Just my opinion.

 

Al=20 = G




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