X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f17.google.com ([209.85.221.17] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3477196 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:08:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.17; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so5367974qyk.19 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:07:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kQi7yF4WiAHfk1lA6fO0Xw5yBhP0ilv7w65PSd4Lx0M=; b=fCV3vyOvG0GeTKAHv6vCsoUmuwwaKmJbmKE6YuQgH/C7c194A4Lg8DQDLzjm0KN2nx 1AGuwiNI3LbtXUcBYB9zWhBSiAtw9dub5XAYrzaUquwun8UzWnXDLnyNN9cjS/jeM5qJ uHbsYOwZGJdK7oh4/jBGVarW3UhgE+Yi1R04k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=chbkrlE/MuOIGB5d1N2zlYAf0AZsmqjsnTuL83JKBXGIOicTD9h2J5CykdQYfWE8tb wRNJ+yxTeUuemyG9CMTxR7UoLYhx18LgTaUrwIMhKAsxDmc13sIrkn3jjLEzsSqJJCL2 RYR24+aP2dIXUbWqV099RGUgmarUOsuzIXqHo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.214.11.16 with SMTP id 16mr11621773qak.47.1233796048402; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:07:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:07:28 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0902041707h7fc0ce8ah7ff9b692ec2863c7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175ce0f430b97f046221870a --0015175ce0f430b97f046221870a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tubes were schedule 80, about .120" On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:15 PM, George Lendich wrote: > Thanks Mark, > I thickness of the tube is what I was after. > George ( down under) > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold > > George, > > If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they were 1/2" > (12mm). I made them this thick so they would provide support for the > exhaust system. Tubes were a press fit and were welded from the back > side. That part of the design has worked great... although probably heavier > than necessary. > > Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material that > could be removed to lighten it up. But I agree that it would be best to > build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch. > > Mark S. > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich wrote: > >> Mark, >> How thick was that again, 1.6mm ? >> George ( down under) >> >> Robert, >> Bite the bullet and make one from scratch, Just make the thick flanges >> from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe as suggested - cheapest and >> best for the 3 rotor. >> Sounds a lot lighter than the cast manifold. >> George ( down under) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >> >> Robert, >> >> I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, but I >> don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is incredibly heavy >> because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. And it is made of >> cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT operation. And the >> passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I could weigh mine and send >> some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because >> I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable. >> Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some >> welding, but it is probably more likely to work than the original 20B >> manifold. >> >> The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I built my >> first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks like it >> would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using this material >> on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material was 1/2" mild carbon >> steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see the high heat that the >> pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. They take a real beating. >> Try to space the muffler as far away from the engine as possible. >> >> Mark S. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: >> >>> Al and Greg, >>> Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold would be >>> too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. Greg, I would be >>> interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a >>> BD-4. >>> Robert >>> >>> Robert Bollinger >>> MR722 MUM >>> Fairfield IA 52557 >>> (641)472-7000 ex2068 >>> (641)919-3213 cell >>> rob@mum.edu >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Greg Ward >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >>> >>> *Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you want to >>> know one way it's done, let me know.* >>> *Greg Ward* >>> *Lancair 20B in progress* >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Al Gietzen >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their >>> engine that I could buy? >>> >>> >>> >>> No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at one when I >>> got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very interesting for an >>> aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my opinion. >>> >>> >>> >>> Al G >>> >>> >> > --0015175ce0f430b97f046221870a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tubes were schedule 80, about .120"


On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:15 PM, George Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Thanks Mark,
I thickness of the tube is what I was= =20 after.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 = 7:59=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 manifold

George,
 
If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, the= y=20 were 1/2" (12mm).  I made them this thick so they would&nb= sp;provide=20 support for the exhaust system.  Tubes were a press fit and were wel= ded=20 from the back side.  That part of the design has worked=20 great... although probably heavier than necessary. 
 
Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast=20 material that could be removed to lighten it up.  But I agree t= hat=20 it would be best to build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch.
 
Mark S.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich= <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:
Mark,
How thick was that again, 1.6mm ?<= /font>
George ( down under)
 
Robert,
Bite the bullet and make one from = scratch, Just=20 make the thick flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe= as=20 suggested - cheapest and best for the 3 rotor.
Sounds a lot lighter than the cast= =20 manifold.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2= 009=20 12:10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B= =20 manifold

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to soun= d=20 negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c.&nbs= p; First,=20 it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin= =20 turbos.  And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt = at=20 prolonged WOT operation.  And the passages are very=20 restrictive to exhaust flow.  I could weigh mine and s= end=20 some pictures if you wish.  Sorry, but I don't want to get r= id of it=20 because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would b= e=20 useable.  Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit. = ; It=20 would require some welding, but it is probably more likely to work th= an=20 the original 20B manifold. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material.&n= bsp;=20 I built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it = looks=20 like it would last for a very long time.  Ed Anderson has been u= sing=20 this material on his a/c for a long time.  My exhause flang= e=20 material was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine a= s it=20 doen'st see the high heat that the pipes do.  The problem wa= s with=20 the mufflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space the= =20 muffler as far away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob <rob@mum.ed= u> wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on this= subject. I=20 realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could wi= ddle=20 it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion fo= r=20 doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA=20 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Ward
Sent: Tuesday, February 03= , 2009=20 11:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2= 0B=20 manifold

Al, you don't want the stock exhaust= . =20 Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, l= et me=20 know.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in=20 progress
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, February = 03,=20 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= 20B=20 manifold

 

Does anyone on this = list=20 have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their engine th= at I=20 could buy?

 

No; but I=20 do know the thing is massively heavy.  I looked at one whe= n I=20 got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very interesting = for=20 an aircraft.  Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my=20 opinion.

&nbs= p;

Al=20 G

=



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