X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.184] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTPS id 3476909 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:15:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.184; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (d211-31-174-46.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.174.46]) by mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id n14MFDwq020104 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:15:13 +1100 Message-ID: <80A799AE9A5E4AC3946AEC1E406FFAF3@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:15:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C98769.DF6ABD00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-3, 04/28/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C98769.DF6ABD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mark, I thickness of the tube is what I was after. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold George,=20 If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they were 1/2" = (12mm). I made them this thick so they would provide support for the = exhaust system. Tubes were a press fit and were welded from the back = side. That part of the design has worked great... although probably = heavier than necessary. =20 Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material that = could be removed to lighten it up. But I agree that it would be best to = build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch. Mark S. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark,=20 How thick was that again, 1.6mm ? George ( down under) Robert,=20 Bite the bullet and make one from scratch, Just make the thick = flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe as suggested - = cheapest and best for the 3 rotor. Sounds a lot lighter than the cast manifold. George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Robert,=20 I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, = but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is = incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. = And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT = operation. And the passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I = could weigh mine and send some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't = want to get rid of it because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto = installation where it would be useable. Maybe you could modify a = Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some welding, but it is = probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifold.=20 The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I = built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks = like it would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using = this material on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material = was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see = the high heat that the pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. = They take a real beating. Try to space the muffler as far away from the = engine as possible. =20 Mark S. =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: Al and Greg, Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold = would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. = Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm = putting this 20B in a BD-4. Robert=20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you = want to know one way it's done, let me know. Greg Ward Lancair 20B in progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that = came with their engine that I could buy? No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at = one when I got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for an aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion. Al G ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C98769.DF6ABD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mark,
I thickness of the tube is what I was=20 after.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Thursday, February 05, = 2009 7:59=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 manifold

George,
 
If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they = were 1/2" (12mm).  I made them this thick so they = would provide=20 support for the exhaust system.  Tubes were a press fit and were = welded=20 from the back side.  That part of the design has worked = great... although probably heavier than necessary. 
 
Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast=20 material that could be removed to lighten it up.  But I = agree that=20 it would be best to build a lightweight exhaust system from = scratch.
 
Mark S.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George = Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:
Mark,
How thick was that again, 1.6mm = ?
George ( down under)
 
Robert,
Bite the bullet and make one from = scratch, Just=20 make the thick flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail = pipe as=20 suggested - cheapest and best for the 3 rotor.
Sounds a lot lighter than the cast=20 manifold.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark Steitle
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Thursday, February = 05, 2009=20 12:10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 20B=20 manifold

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to sound = negative, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an = a/c.  First,=20 it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the = twin=20 turbos.  And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably = melt at=20 prolonged WOT operation.  And the passages are very = restrictive to exhaust flow.  I could weigh mine = and send=20 some pictures if you wish.  Sorry, but I don't want to get = rid of it=20 because I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it = would be=20 useable.  Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to = fit.  It=20 would require some welding, but it is probably more likely to work = than=20 the original 20B manifold. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail = material. =20 I built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours = it looks=20 like it would last for a very long time.  Ed Anderson has = been using=20 this material on his a/c for a long time.  My exhause = flange=20 material was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as = it=20 doen'st see the high heat that the pipes do.  The problem was = with=20 the mufflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space = the=20 muffler as far away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu> wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on this = subject. I=20 realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could = widdle=20 it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion = for=20 doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA=20 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Greg Ward
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, February = 03, 2009=20 11:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 20B=20 manifold

Al, you don't want the stock = exhaust. =20 Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, = let me=20 know.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in=20 progress
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Al Gietzen
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, = February 03,=20 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 20B=20 manifold

 

Does anyone on = this list=20 have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their engine = that I=20 could buy?

 

No; but I=20 do know the thing is massively heavy.  I looked at one = when I=20 got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very = interesting for=20 an aircraft.  Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my = opinion.

 

Al=20 = G



------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C98769.DF6ABD00--