X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f17.google.com ([209.85.221.17] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3476884 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:00:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.17; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so5204599qyk.19 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:59:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=cKdlda5QUl20KnTFfTklus4JbZhTFrHfNzE6bXUmubc=; b=dK5FMWAhmpsQraMZla2GZJf6Dsf7N//q37EZoesSDR098cvmswGP3eAISzVxAJKwCO qMX13j8f7DwjVaBY8R2fDXPOHmM4Ze8/oV4sn6l7BjyEcYnh18JZ2WMIr/fICzQFT12A RolSgPOVTjOoWmTVFCeW9dk8i9ydSEWoZds3Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ihF4Y4K3cPmad+TDWswwFlXr4V2ZrMiDnHAscSF/rnZ+i4q8NqVL7k/doD0WmxlTkU BsVnc03g0JPdERSrgBpvNXOLcwJK//+3nIqCy7mzl5BYuOe4Ec8BfXGJFzK6DmzX09yk 8n0j0WVgWf5os6swHvFPhcSYu1OPM4VNeMdW4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.214.78.21 with SMTP id a21mr4052258qab.221.1233784782835; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:59:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:59:42 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0902041359h728290dds4375f4b73df4b309@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb278b5d0a604621ee76f --0015175cb278b5d0a604621ee76f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they were 1/2" (12mm). I made them this thick so they would provide support for the exhaust system. Tubes were a press fit and were welded from the back side. That part of the design has worked great... although probably heavier than necessary. Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material that could be removed to lighten it up. But I agree that it would be best to build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch. Mark S. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich wrote: > Mark, > How thick was that again, 1.6mm ? > George ( down under) > > Robert, > Bite the bullet and make one from scratch, Just make the thick flanges from > SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rail pipe as suggested - cheapest and best > for the 3 rotor. > Sounds a lot lighter than the cast manifold. > George ( down under) > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:10 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold > > Robert, > > I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, but I > don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is incredibly heavy > because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. And it is made of > cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT operation. And the > passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I could weigh mine and send > some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because > I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable. > Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some > welding, but it is probably more likely to work than the original 20B > manifold. > > The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I built my > first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks like it > would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using this material > on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material was 1/2" mild carbon > steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see the high heat that the > pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. They take a real beating. > Try to space the muffler as far away from the engine as possible. > > Mark S. > > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: > >> Al and Greg, >> Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold would be >> too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. Greg, I would be >> interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a >> BD-4. >> Robert >> >> Robert Bollinger >> MR722 MUM >> Fairfield IA 52557 >> (641)472-7000 ex2068 >> (641)919-3213 cell >> rob@mum.edu >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Greg Ward >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >> >> *Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you want to >> know one way it's done, let me know.* >> *Greg Ward* >> *Lancair 20B in progress* >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Al Gietzen >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >> >> >> >> Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their >> engine that I could buy? >> >> >> >> No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at one when I >> got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very interesting for an >> aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my opinion. >> >> >> >> Al G >> >> > --0015175cb278b5d0a604621ee76f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
If you're asking how thick my 20B exhaust flanges were, they = were 1/2" (12mm).  I made them this thick so they would = ;provide support for the exhaust system.  Tubes were a press fit and w= ere welded from the back side.  That part of the design has = worked great... although probably heavier than necessary. 
 
Regarding the Renesis manifold, there is a bunch of cast material = ;that could be removed to lighten it up.  But I agree that it would be= best to build a lightweight exhaust system from scratch.
 
Mark S.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:36 PM, George Lendich <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lendich@opt= usnet.com.au> wrote:
Mark,
How thick was that again, 1.6mm ?
George ( down under)
 
Robert,
Bite the bullet and make one from scra= tch, Just make the thick flanges from SS ( 304 or 316) and use the hand rai= l pipe as suggested - cheapest and best for the 3 rotor.
Sounds a lot lighter than the cast man= ifold.
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12= :10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to sound nega= tive, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c.  First, = it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbo= s.  And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonge= d WOT operation.  And the passages are very restrictive = ;to exhaust flow.  I could weigh mine and send some pictures if y= ou wish.  Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because I have = plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable.  Mayb= e you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit.  It would require some w= elding, but it is probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifo= ld. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material.  I= built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks l= ike it would last for a very long time.  Ed Anderson has been using th= is material on his a/c for a long time.  My exhause flange materi= al was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen= 9;st see the high heat that the pipes do.  The problem was with the mu= fflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space the muffler as f= ar away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu&= gt; wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on this subject= . I realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle= it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing= that. I'm putting this 20B in a BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000 e= x2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Ward
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:= 10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

Al, you don't want the stock exhaust.&nbs= p; Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, let me k= now.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:2= 5 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

Does anyone on this list have a 20= B exhaust manifold that came with their engine that I could buy?

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

No; but I do know the thing is = massively heavy.  I looked at one when I got my engine, and decided qu= ickly it was not very interesting for an aircraft.  Maybe if radically= modified . . . Just my opinion.

 

Al G



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