X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f17.google.com ([209.85.221.17] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3476345 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:35:06 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.17; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so4925170qyk.19 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:34:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=r/0UBtVjq2pQFfp8yaoCxBMhigSmlp3d97RsUYamXi0=; b=rB2WrEiH1aFGgVaT6mWqr1tg6J6VyQxAYwPTd/OuwDliGJ8BE7QoF2eiQpippoNsYs N1NaVkUEI9dy6hXMc8e/9YFOlZ+fszno8Qtmd5wYcRnKqnhL9tx9clAE3uMHVgmTo7zw Bs4p/vS5HmAVyl5EpRcqEpMKt6cPyenffDCjI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=GFQtRVdx2N4x4Ql7xXzZVYtBGusoZzzSLph489gBuaPMxWjwP+fLzXUJlDcR2duXxu w2OU4X9MMEJFArD2WSOf/EWgTmwjU08vFejIdCQIzK4L9d2ebB7Q4XyvC7PCDVzD0ctz 7vSWKyfAWxLxDcY1RBR121w6/+2no+ZBvhXPg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.214.218.16 with SMTP id q16mr7040081qag.353.1233768869223; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:34:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:34:29 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0902040934r38d3a4fbs2e0e1c3e847703fe@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=0015175cba502f5df104621b33df --0015175cba502f5df104621b33df Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cba502f5dd104621b33dd --0015175cba502f5dd104621b33dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob, The Renesis manifold has an inner shell, an outer shell, and a heat shield on top of that. I'm not positive, but the inner shell could possibly be made of inconel. The outer shell appears to be stainless (probably 321). Since the Renesis has three exhaust ports, I have often wondered if it could be modified to work on a 3-rotor. Keep in mind that the port spacing on the Renesis is the same while the 20B unequally spaced. That's due to the one larger side housing that contains the 3rd main bearing. So, if the ports are big enough, and the bolt pattern matches, you would still have to add an extension between two of the ports to make it line up. If that is all it requires to make it fit, it could be worth a try. Mark S. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Rob wrote: > I would be interested to know the weight. I didn't realize that a cast > exhaust manifold made for a 20B could actually melt. It sounds like the > Renesis manifold would be better.. Is the Renesis manifold stainless steel > or what? > Robert Bollinger > MR722 MUM > Fairfield IA 52557 > (641)472-7000 ex2068 > (641)919-3213 cell > rob@mum.edu > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:10 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold > > Robert, > > I have one that came with my 20B. I don't want to sound negative, but I > don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c. First, it is incredibly heavy > because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbos. And it is made of > cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonged WOT operation. And the > passages are very restrictive to exhaust flow. I could weigh mine and send > some pictures if you wish. Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because > I have plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable. > Maybe you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit. It would require some > welding, but it is probably more likely to work than the original 20B > manifold. > > The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material. I built my > first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks like it > would last for a very long time. Ed Anderson has been using this material > on his a/c for a long time. My exhause flange material was 1/2" mild carbon > steel and it was holding up fine as it doen'st see the high heat that the > pipes do. The problem was with the mufflers. They take a real beating. > Try to space the muffler as far away from the engine as possible. > > Mark S. > > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob wrote: > >> Al and Greg, >> Thanks for your replys on this subject. I realize the manifold would be >> too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle it down some how. Greg, I would be >> interested in your suggestion for doing that. I'm putting this 20B in a >> BD-4. >> Robert >> >> Robert Bollinger >> MR722 MUM >> Fairfield IA 52557 >> (641)472-7000 ex2068 >> (641)919-3213 cell >> rob@mum.edu >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Greg Ward >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:10 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >> >> *Al, you don't want the stock exhaust. Get one built. If you want to >> know one way it's done, let me know.* >> *Greg Ward* >> *Lancair 20B in progress* >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Al Gietzen >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:25 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifold >> >> >> >> Does anyone on this list have a 20B exhaust manifold that came with their >> engine that I could buy? >> >> >> >> No; but I do know the thing is massively heavy. I looked at one when I >> got my engine, and decided quickly it was not very interesting for an >> aircraft. Maybe if radically modified . . . Just my opinion. >> >> >> >> Al G >> >> > --0015175cba502f5dd104621b33dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,
 
The Renesis manifold has an inner shell, an outer shell, and a heat sh= ield on top of that.  I'm not positive, but the inner shell c= ould possibly be made of inconel.  The outer shell appears to be = stainless (probably 321). 
 
Since the Renesis has three exhaust ports, I have often wondered if it= could be modified to work on a 3-rotor.  Keep in mind that the port s= pacing on the Renesis is the same while the 20B unequally spaced.=   That's due to the one larger side housing that contains the= 3rd main bearing.  So, if the ports are big enough, an= d the bolt pattern matches, you would still have to add an extension b= etween two of the ports to make it line up.  If that is all it re= quires to make it fit, it could be worth a try.  
 
Mark S.  

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu> wrot= e:
I would be interested to know the weig= ht. I didn't realize that a cast exhaust manifold made for a 20B could = actually melt. It sounds like the Renesis manifold would be better.. Is&nbs= p;the Renesis manifold stainless steel or what?
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000 e= x2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8= :10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

Robert,
 
I have one that came with my 20B.  I don't want to sound nega= tive, but I don't think it is realistic to use on an a/c.  First, = it is incredibly heavy because it is designed to incorporate the twin turbo= s.  And it is made of cast iron, so it would probably melt at prolonge= d WOT operation.  And the passages are very restrictive = ;to exhaust flow.  I could weigh mine and send some pictures if y= ou wish.  Sorry, but I don't want to get rid of it because I have = plans for a 3-rotor auto installation where it would be useable.  Mayb= e you could modify a Renesis manifold to fit.  It would require some w= elding, but it is probably more likely to work than the original 20B manifo= ld. 
 
The cheapest manifold would be to use 304SS handrail material.  I= built my first manifold using that material and after 100 hours it looks l= ike it would last for a very long time.  Ed Anderson has been using th= is material on his a/c for a long time.  My exhause flange materi= al was 1/2" mild carbon steel and it was holding up fine as it doen= 9;st see the high heat that the pipes do.  The problem was with the mu= fflers.  They take a real beating.  Try to space the muffler as f= ar away from the engine as possible. 
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu&= gt; wrote:
Al and Greg,
Thanks for your replys on this subject= . I realize the manifold would be too heavy but I was hoping I could widdle= it down some how. Greg, I would be interested in your suggestion for doing= that. I'm putting this 20B in a BD-4.
Robert
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000 e= x2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Ward
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:= 10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

Al, you don't want the stock exhaust.&nbs= p; Get one built.  If you want to know one way it's done, let me k= now.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:2= 5 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B manifol= d

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

Does anyone on this list have a 20= B exhaust manifold that came with their engine that I could buy?

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

No; but I do know the thing is = massively heavy.  I looked at one when I got my engine, and decided qu= ickly it was not very interesting for an aircraft.  Maybe if radically= modified . . . Just my opinion.

 

Al G



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