From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 6:41 AM
Paul,

That sounds like a good plan.  My only comment is to not
get too worked up
over it being a "Lancair".  I had been told the
ES flies like a 172, very
docile and predictable, and its true.  I had asked around
and couldn't find
anyone locally that would let me fly left seat in their ES,
even tried
taking instruction in a Cirrus (the jerks at the flight
school wouldn't even
reutrn my pnone calls).

So, I went to plan B.  Before I flew my ES, I got an hour
of instruction in
a 182RG with C/S prop.  That got me my high-performance and
complex
endorsements.  To get used to flying a side stick, I
practiced on Flight
Simulator with a joystick (left hand) until it felt
natural.  I also did a
lot of fast taxi runs, getting used to keeping it going
straight down the
runway, getting the feel of how much right rudder would be
required, and
raising the nose to see how it felt and looked out the
windscreen in climb
and flair;  and getting used to the additional power of the
3-rotor.  When
the day came, I didn't have any trouble flying the ES.  I don't recommend
this approach with a IV-P, Legacy, 360, etc.  I'm not
saying not to get
adequate training, only to not get too worked up over it
being a "Lancair",
therefore extrememly difficult to fly.

Mark


On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:51 AM,
<fpbjr2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> ed
>  in this market i do not think it will sell so if i
pass my medical next
> month i'm going to do a condition inspection on it
and build my 10 hrs high
> performance time my DAR said i needed before i fly it.
if i can settle all
> issues with lou i will fly it.
>  may see you at sun-n-fun whether we have the plane or
not.
>                  paul brannon    N117ES
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B numbers
> > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:43 PM
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > Good to hear from you.  Thanks for the real
figures on your
> > turbo 3 rotor,
> > couldn't remember them offhand.
> >
> > I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays
in the
> > family?  Or do you simply
> > have a good home for it?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> >
> > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> >
> > Matthews, NC
> >
> > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> >
> > http://www.andersonee.com
> >
> > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> >
> > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >
> >
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com
> > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM
> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
> > numbers
> >
> > ed
> >   dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 386
ft/lb
> > torque at 5500 rpm.
> >   not sold yet. and may fly yet.
> >                 paul brannon    N117ES
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
> > <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
BBQ Run /
> > 20B numbers
> > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> > <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM
> > > Should be a fire belching dragon of an
engine at over
> > 15psi,
> > > Greg.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg
of boost
> > which
> > > at an A/F ratio of 12
> > > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those
boost
> > levels)
> > > would give at
> > > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more
power  at
> > high
> > > rpm and boost
> > > naturally)  and producing a total of  25000
BTU/Min of
> > heat
> > > to be dumped
> > > through the radiator and oil cooler.  Boy,
you will
> > produce
> > > more heat energy
> > > that gets dumped through your oil cooler
(8484
> > BTU/Min)
> > > than my total
> > > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts
out.  Hope
> > you
> > > have big radiators
> > > and oil cooler {:>).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A couple of guys in South Carolina had a
turbo 3 rotor
> > that
> > > they stated
> > > produced over 500 HP on the dyno.  It flew,
but
> > > unfortunately only one
> > > flight, before one of the partners decided
they were
> > not
> > > true experimenters
> > > and they decided to sell the project.  It
was really a
> > nice
> > > looking set up
> > > on a Lancair ES.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed Anderson
> > >
> > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > >
> > > Matthews, NC
> > >
> > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > >
> > >  <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > >
> > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > >
> >
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of Greg Ward
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM
> > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
BBQ Run /
> > 20B
> > > numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Ed;
> > >
> > > We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer,
starting at
> > about
> > > 15# of boost,
> > > and are extensively flow testing both the
exhaust and
> > > induction for best
> > > efficiency/output.  That's why the
pictures, show
> > > everything a little bit
> > > different from what everyone else has done. Trying
> > for
> > > optimum runner
> > > length, as little back pressure as possible,
early
> > heat
> > > removal, etc.
> > > Haven't got any real numbers down yet,
until we
> > > (finally) get on the dyno
> > > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets
for
> > mileage, and
> > > going from
> > > there, we are convinced that fuel flows
should be
> > pretty
> > > good.  That's why
> > > they call it
"experimental".....(:-)
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Ed
<mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > Anderson
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Rotary
<mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > motors in aircraft
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
> > > numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure
reported was
> > correct
> > > - then the HP
> > > figures I calculated are in the ball park.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing
> > considerably
> > > more power at sea
> > > level (per Al's dyno run with his 3
rotor) with
> > the
> > > higher air density.
> > > However, at altitude the upper limit would
naturally
> > be
> > > less due to the less
> > > dense air to support combustion, unless you
are
> > running
> > > some sort of forced
> > > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or
perhaps
> > nitrous
> > > oxide chemical
> > > enhancement.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it
does not
> > matter
> > > whether it was a 2
> > > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would
really have
> > to
> > > be screaming to
> > > burn at that rate {:>)),  the approx HP
equation
> > is:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon )
/BSFC =
> > > 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 =
> > > 163 HP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now if you choose a different BSFC such as
0.49 then
> > you
> > > get a better
> > > conversion.  But, I tend to be conservative
in my
> > > estimates.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed Anderson
> > >
> > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > >
> > > Matthews, NC
> > >
> > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > >
> > >  <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > >
> > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > >
> >
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > >
> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of Greg Ward
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM
> > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
/ 20B
> > numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo
20B are
> > much
> > > higher than that.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Al Gietzen
<mailto:ALVentures@cox.net>
> > >
> > > To: Rotary
<mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > motors in aircraft
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
/ 20B
> > numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp -
or maybe
> > one
> > > rotor - too low.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Al G
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM
> > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
/ 20B
> > numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be
making
> > approx
> > > 165 HP, perhaps a
> > > bit more, using a very conservative  BSFC of
0.55.  If
> > you
> > > assume a bit
> > > better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183
HP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed Anderson
> > >
> > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > >
> > > Matthews, NC
> > >
> > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > >
> > >  <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > >
> > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > >
> >
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > >
> > > <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > >
> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM
> > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run /
20B numbers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Great story...thanks for posting it!  At
6,000 rpm and
> > 15
> > > gph, how many HP
> > > do you think you're developing?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, have you by chance flown side by side
with
> > another
> > > Lycoming powered ES
> > > for comparison purposes?  If so what did you
learn?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We're going to have a couple of
"burger
> > > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just
> > > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so
maybe
> > > you'll feel like going on
> > > a short cross country up this way and show
our little
> > EAA
> > > chapter what a
> > > three rotor looks and sounds like?!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Blue Skies
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > RV-9A, 13B
> > >
> > > Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and
canopy work!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > >
> > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
> > >
> > <
>
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt
> > >
> > p://
>
www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec
> > > emailfooterNO62>  yours in just 2 easy
steps!
> > >
> > >
> > >
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