X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.237] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3412318 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:08:01 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.198.237; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so9530455rvb.7 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:07:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=WUHvSc6+AjJjAzc8a0idThhtqMWRyURnhiwwuNZGUQU=; b=ZB17a6zyVI/dLzUOTCcs+Kw6XRnBq5u/zGTs+1iyLaKfOZP0gropX705T4HaPGB3jG V7yPWVG8VFs4ClKtT2SUcGkS8V7+NQkF+InoykAVq7eiiutQzdAJshtAGW8o2soUAZGf nRo5XZ/uscOHpNbwTSSr67DfcklMmsHod0heA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=P41t99C30mi2AGZ/lqnqzzTrlGr0EgGyxqWW/mY8+7bFgpBAc0V6SED2E3bF3YRxHG Tqz20gpaePjeFY1gUp/pstdy4l5Fc3DMcCezURfFMO9emd6X5yqjCisg5SyxKdjXqy69 h+t0YEZu0KZYnkhbF5WsGf+zBdFgmqOf4644M= Received: by 10.141.129.14 with SMTP id g14mr10729141rvn.8.1231211246496; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.4 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:07:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5cf132c0901051907p5fc05aa9p56878774c23e99e7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:07:26 -0600 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_117928_27461546.1231211246479" References: ------=_Part_117928_27461546.1231211246479 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Mike, There's plenty of room on the hot side in my cowl. ;-) Mark On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Mike Wills wrote: > I thought about it, but that hardware doesnt fit well in the RV-4 cowl > either. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, January 05, 2009 5:35 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome > > Mike, > > Actually, reducing exhaust noise is one of the beneifts of turbo-charging= . > > Mark S. > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Mike Wills wrote: > >> Well when the E-Racer that was built by George Graham was on the airpor= t >> it was about the only prop plane louder than mine. That airplane was ear >> splitting loud. So I'm not sold on the prop as a noise reducer. Give >> yourself more credit Al, you've actually engineered and built a muffler = that >> works. >> >> Mike Wills >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:45 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome >> >> I guess the prop chopping the noise stream could account for some of the >> perception of quietness. As for the muffler/resonator, 6db is a signifi= cant >> reduction. I think I still have the drawings you provided. The nice th= ing >> about the tangential muffler design is that it will fit inside my cowl. = The >> muffler/resonator should fit where the Hushpower 2 is now. We'll see. >> >> Mark >> >> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: >> >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome >>> >>> >>> >>> My exhaust exits about 6-7 inches from prop and goes through near the >>> root of the blades (pusher). It occurs to me that having my exhaust exi= t >>> through the prop may help reduce or mask the exhaust noise. On a takeo= ff >>> roll there is a prop blade breaking that exhaust stream about 130 times= per >>> second. Let's see, that's about 1 blade passing for every two exhaust p= ulses >>> on the 20B =96 could make a difference. >>> >>> >>> >>> The secondary muffler/resonator I have also helps. On the dyno we >>> measured that resulted in about 6 db reduction. >>> >>> >>> >>> Al G >>> >>> Agree. Unfortunately, that's not a comment I hear. On the contrary, >>> they usually tell me that they can hear me before they can see me. ;-( >>> >>> Mark S. >>> ANR headsets mandatory >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: >>> >>> I'm presently gathering materials to fabricate a tangential muffler mad= e >>> from inconel, similar to your design. I take it from your report that = your >>> muffler is holding up well? >>> >>> Mark S. >>> >>> >>> >>> So far it is doing fine. And the inconel tangential and the 321SS >>> secondary muffler (my own design) quiet it down nicely. A few days ago= I >>> picked up my brother to go for a ride, while my sister-in-law waited an= d >>> watched other planes come and go. When we got back her remark was that= my >>> plane was quieter than all the rest. I consider that to be 'expert >>> testimony'J. >>> >>> Al G >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: >>> >>> Al, >>> >>> That's a great shot. Have you had any "significant issues" with your >>> install? If so, how did you overcome them? >>> Mark S. >>> >>> I had 2 issues that required some time and determination. The first was >>> the RWS EC2. I had an early version for the 3-rotor, and perhaps the f= irst >>> installed in a composite airplane. I had some kind of electrical noise >>> related corruption of settings which persisted through a lot of effort = for >>> over a years time. It has been resolved, and the engine running fine. = That >>> has been discussed here more than once in the past. >>> >>> The other was less-than-expected performance of an oil cooler built int= o >>> the wing root, without much of a scoop for the inlet below the wing. T= he >>> theory was that the differential pressure below/above the wing would he= lp >>> provide the necessary air flow. Not the case here as the location is t= oo >>> far back on the wing; and behind the strake (the inboard section on the >>> canard airplane). The pressure differential turned out to be only abou= t 1" >>> H20 =96 very little help. I added a ram scoop, and installed a small >>> oil/water heat exchanger in the cowl. Currently oil temps are fine, an= d the >>> coolant temp is running a bit lower than I like at cruise. I may event= ually >>> install some sort of air flow adjustment, or even consider installing a >>> thermostat in the engine. You may recall discussion of these changes h= ere >>> in the past as well. >>> >>> I'm just past 140 hours flying time, and feel quite fortunate with how >>> well things have worked out. Performance and economy are great. >>> >>> Al G http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ------=_Part_117928_27461546.1231211246479 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Mike,

There's plenty of room on the hot side in my cowl.  = ;-)

Mark

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:= 54 PM, Mike Wills <rv-4mike@cox.net> wrote:
I thought about it, but that hardware = doesnt fit=20 well in the RV-4 cowl either.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark Steitle=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: = Monday, January 05, 2009 5:35=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B insta= ll=20 issues overcome

Mike,
 
Actually, reducing exhaust noise is one of the beneifts of=20 turbo-charging.
 
Mark S.

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Mike Wills <rv= -4mike@cox.net>=20 wrote:
Well when the E-Racer that was bui= lt by George=20 Graham was on the airport it was about the only prop plane louder than = mine.=20 That airplane was ear splitting loud. So I'm not sold on the prop a= s a noise=20 reducer. Give yourself more credit Al, you've actually engineered a= nd built=20 a muffler that works.
 
Mike Wills
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009= 8:45=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B i= nstall=20 issues overcome

I guess the prop chopping = the noise stream could account=20 for some of the perception of quietness.  As for the=20 muffler/resonator, 6db is a significant reduction.  I think I st= ill=20 have the drawings you provided.  The nice thing about the tangen= tial=20 muffler design is that it will fit inside my cowl.  The=20 muffler/resonator should fit where the Hushpower 2 is now.  We&#= 39;ll=20 see.

Mark

On Sun, Jan 4,= 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

= Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome

 

My exhaust=20 exits about 6-7 inches from prop and goes through near the root of = the=20 blades (pusher). It occurs to me that having my exhaust exit throug= h the=20 prop may help reduce or mask the exhaust noise.  On a takeoff = roll=20 there is a prop blade breaking that exhaust stream about 130 times = per=20 second. Let's see, that's about 1 blade passing for every t= wo exhaust=20 pulses on the 20B =96 could make a difference.

 

The secondary=20 muffler/resonator I have also helps.  On the dyno we measured = that=20 resulted in about 6 db reduction.

 

Al=20 G

Agree. =20 Unfortunately, that's not a comment I hear.  On the contra= ry, they=20 usually tell me that they can hear me before they can see me. = =20 ;-( 


Mark S.
ANR headsets man= datory

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 = at 12:22 AM,=20 Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

I'm=20 presently gathering materials to fabricate a tangential muffler mad= e=20 from inconel, similar to your design.  I take it from your rep= ort=20 that your muffler is holding up well?       &nb= sp;=20

Mark S.

 

So far it is=20 doing fine.  And the inconel tangential and the 321SS secondar= y=20 muffler (my own design) quiet it down nicely.  A few days ago = I=20 picked up my brother to go for a ride, while my sister-in-law waite= d and=20 watched other planes come and go.  When we got back her remark= was=20 that my plane was quieter than all the rest.  I consider that = to be=20 'expert testimony'J.

Al=20 G

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 a= t 5:47 PM, Al=20 Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Al,=20

That's a great shot.  Have you had any "signi= ficant issues"=20 with your install?  If so, how did you overcome them?
Mark= =20 S. 

I had 2=20 issues that required some time and determination. The first was the= RWS=20 EC2.  I had an early version for the 3-rotor, and perhaps the = first=20 installed in a composite airplane.  I had some kind of electri= cal=20 noise related corruption of settings which persisted through a lot = of=20 effort for over a years time. It has been resolved, and the engine= =20 running fine.  That has been discussed here more than once in = the=20 past.

The other was=20 less-than-expected performance of an oil cooler built into the wing= =20 root, without much of a scoop for the inlet below the wing.  T= he=20 theory was that the differential pressure below/above the wing woul= d=20 help provide the necessary air flow.  Not the case here as the= =20 location is too far back on the wing; and behind the strake (the in= board=20 section on the canard airplane).  The pressure differential tu= rned=20 out to be only about 1" H20 =96 very little help.  I adde= d a ram=20 scoop, and installed a small oil/water heat exchanger in the cowl.&= nbsp;=20 Currently oil temps are fine, and the coolant temp is running a bit= =20 lower than I like at cruise.  I may eventually install some so= rt of=20 air flow adjustment, or even consider installing a thermostat in th= e=20 engine.  You may recall discussion of these changes here in th= e=20 past as well.

I'm just past=20 140 hours flying time, and feel quite fortunate with how well thing= s=20 have worked out.  Performance and economy are=20 great.

Al=20 G   http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm

 

 

 

 


=

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