X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3412308 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:55:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090106025450.FAXD8485.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:54:50 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id 02un1b0011CvZmk032up2a; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:54:49 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=NSHW2kUv_6QA:10 a=Zgn9d7bnwx8A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=w1Ede-f2SaDVh_zjBEgA:9 a=pX9cxjcv6UNBuEY_me8A:7 a=cMciCYwzfBYzXxZUBEAxOoOr_McA:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 a=Hd6kECM1Ox3oZGHVrqsA:9 a=0idkgHnvqBJSmfI5p9oA:7 a=IMWB8lU-Y6TAqij8nGAJ5_r-xoUA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <002001c96faa$23c7f440$38556944@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:54:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C96F67.153BE050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C96F67.153BE050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought about it, but that hardware doesnt fit well in the RV-4 cowl = either. Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:35 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome Mike,=20 Actually, reducing exhaust noise is one of the beneifts of = turbo-charging. Mark S. On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Mike Wills wrote: Well when the E-Racer that was built by George Graham was on the = airport it was about the only prop plane louder than mine. That airplane = was ear splitting loud. So I'm not sold on the prop as a noise reducer. = Give yourself more credit Al, you've actually engineered and built a = muffler that works. Mike Wills ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:45 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome I guess the prop chopping the noise stream could account for some = of the perception of quietness. As for the muffler/resonator, 6db is a = significant reduction. I think I still have the drawings you provided. = The nice thing about the tangential muffler design is that it will fit = inside my cowl. The muffler/resonator should fit where the Hushpower 2 = is now. We'll see. Mark On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al Gietzen = wrote: Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome My exhaust exits about 6-7 inches from prop and goes through = near the root of the blades (pusher). It occurs to me that having my = exhaust exit through the prop may help reduce or mask the exhaust noise. = On a takeoff roll there is a prop blade breaking that exhaust stream = about 130 times per second. Let's see, that's about 1 blade passing for = every two exhaust pulses on the 20B =96 could make a difference. The secondary muffler/resonator I have also helps. On the dyno = we measured that resulted in about 6 db reduction. Al G Agree. Unfortunately, that's not a comment I hear. On the = contrary, they usually tell me that they can hear me before they can see = me. ;-( =20 Mark S. ANR headsets mandatory On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Al Gietzen = wrote: I'm presently gathering materials to fabricate a tangential = muffler made from inconel, similar to your design. I take it from your = report that your muffler is holding up well? =20 Mark S. So far it is doing fine. And the inconel tangential and the = 321SS secondary muffler (my own design) quiet it down nicely. A few = days ago I picked up my brother to go for a ride, while my sister-in-law = waited and watched other planes come and go. When we got back her = remark was that my plane was quieter than all the rest. I consider that = to be 'expert testimony'J. Al G On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Al Gietzen = wrote: Al,=20 That's a great shot. Have you had any "significant issues" with = your install? If so, how did you overcome them? Mark S. =20 I had 2 issues that required some time and determination. The = first was the RWS EC2. I had an early version for the 3-rotor, and = perhaps the first installed in a composite airplane. I had some kind of = electrical noise related corruption of settings which persisted through = a lot of effort for over a years time. It has been resolved, and the = engine running fine. That has been discussed here more than once in the = past. The other was less-than-expected performance of an oil cooler = built into the wing root, without much of a scoop for the inlet below = the wing. The theory was that the differential pressure below/above the = wing would help provide the necessary air flow. Not the case here as = the location is too far back on the wing; and behind the strake (the = inboard section on the canard airplane). The pressure differential = turned out to be only about 1" H20 =96 very little help. I added a ram = scoop, and installed a small oil/water heat exchanger in the cowl. = Currently oil temps are fine, and the coolant temp is running a bit = lower than I like at cruise. I may eventually install some sort of air = flow adjustment, or even consider installing a thermostat in the engine. = You may recall discussion of these changes here in the past as well. I'm just past 140 hours flying time, and feel quite fortunate = with how well things have worked out. Performance and economy are = great. Al G http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C96F67.153BE050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I thought about it, but that hardware = doesnt fit=20 well in the RV-4 cowl either.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 = 5:35=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B = install=20 issues overcome

Mike,
 
Actually, reducing exhaust noise is one of the beneifts of=20 turbo-charging.
 
Mark S.

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Mike Wills = <rv-4mike@cox.net>=20 wrote:
Well when the E-Racer that was = built by George=20 Graham was on the airport it was about the only prop plane louder = than mine.=20 That airplane was ear splitting loud. So I'm not sold on the prop as = a noise=20 reducer. Give yourself more credit Al, you've actually engineered = and built=20 a muffler that works.
 
Mike Wills
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark Steitle
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Sunday, January 04, = 2009 8:45=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 20B install=20 issues overcome

I guess the prop chopping the noise stream could = account=20 for some of the perception of quietness.  As for the=20 muffler/resonator, 6db is a significant reduction.  I think I = still=20 have the drawings you provided.  The nice thing about the = tangential=20 muffler design is that it will fit inside my cowl.  The=20 muffler/resonator should fit where the Hushpower 2 is now.  = We'll=20 see.

Mark

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al = Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 20B install issues overcome

 

My = exhaust=20 exits about 6-7 inches from prop and goes through near the root = of the=20 blades (pusher). It occurs to me that having my exhaust exit = through the=20 prop may help reduce or mask the exhaust noise.  On a = takeoff roll=20 there is a prop blade breaking that exhaust stream about 130 = times per=20 second. Let's see, that's about 1 blade passing for every two = exhaust=20 pulses on the 20B =96 could make a difference.

 

The = secondary=20 muffler/resonator I have also helps.  On the dyno we = measured that=20 resulted in about 6 db reduction.

 

Al=20 G

Agree. =20 Unfortunately, that's not a comment I hear.  On the = contrary, they=20 usually tell me that they can hear me before they can see = me. =20 ;-( 

Mark S.
ANR headsets = mandatory

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at = 12:22 AM,=20 Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

I'm=20 presently gathering materials to fabricate a tangential muffler = made=20 from inconel, similar to your design.  I take it from your = report=20 that your muffler is holding up well?      =   =20

Mark S.

 

So = far it is=20 doing fine.  And the inconel tangential and the 321SS = secondary=20 muffler (my own design) quiet it down nicely.  A few days = ago I=20 picked up my brother to go for a ride, while my sister-in-law = waited and=20 watched other planes come and go.  When we got back her = remark was=20 that my plane was quieter than all the rest.  I consider = that to be=20 'expert testimony'J.

Al=20 G

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at = 5:47 PM, Al=20 Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Al,=20

That's a great shot.  Have you had any "significant = issues"=20 with your install?  If so, how did you overcome = them?
Mark=20 S. 

I = had 2=20 issues that required some time and determination. The first was = the RWS=20 EC2.  I had an early version for the 3-rotor, and perhaps = the first=20 installed in a composite airplane.  I had some kind of = electrical=20 noise related corruption of settings which persisted through a = lot of=20 effort for over a years time. It has been resolved, and the = engine=20 running fine.  That has been discussed here more than once = in the=20 past.

The = other was=20 less-than-expected performance of an oil cooler built into the = wing=20 root, without much of a scoop for the inlet below the wing. =  The=20 theory was that the differential pressure below/above the wing = would=20 help provide the necessary air flow.  Not the case here as = the=20 location is too far back on the wing; and behind the strake (the = inboard=20 section on the canard airplane).  The pressure differential = turned=20 out to be only about 1" H20 =96 very little help.  I added = a ram=20 scoop, and installed a small oil/water heat exchanger in the = cowl. =20 Currently oil temps are fine, and the coolant temp is running a = bit=20 lower than I like at cruise.  I may eventually install some = sort of=20 air flow adjustment, or even consider installing a thermostat in = the=20 engine.  You may recall discussion of these changes here in = the=20 past as well.

I'm = just past=20 140 hours flying time, and feel quite fortunate with how well = things=20 have worked out.  Performance and economy are=20 great.

Al=20 G   http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm

 

 

 

 



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