Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #4425
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Core vs Radistor was Re: [FlyRotary] radiator
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:16:56 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Cc: Paul Conner <sqpilot@earthlink.net>
Message
Boy, you catch me every time{:>)
 
Thanks for the info Rusty
 
 Paul,
 
    I calculate out Rusty's radiator to have a volume of 17.5*24.25*2.25 = 964 in^3.  Given that he was running a turbo, he would naturally want/need more cooling capacity than a NA block.  So his basic radiator was approx 50% large in volume than two cores.  Since he could produce up to that much additional power with his turbo, it would appear that his is sized about right - perhaps a bit on the large size since he probably would not run under high boost at cruise. 
 
  I won't go into the different configurations he tried, but it appears he intends to go with 300 square inch area which with a core depth of 2.25 inches would give him around 675 in^3 - again fairly close to the area of two evaporator cores.
 
 So again, I would not recommend you spending a lot of money on a possibly undersized radiator.
You can fairly accurately calculate your cooling needs - and your radiator builder should be able to tell you what size you need.  You probably need to let him know what air flow speed you are expecting it to provide that performance under.  If your radiator builder knows what he is doing he should be able to take the BTUs you need to reject and the air flow and calculate the size of radiator you need.  On the other hand, if he is just going to whip you up an "automobile" style radiator, then you could be stuck with just auto level cooling - perhaps insufficient for high power continuos operation.
 
My calculations shows that at 175Hp you need to get rid of around 5400 BTU/Min though the radiator and another 2700 BTU/Min through the oil cooler.  At 160Hp that would be around 5000 and 2500 btu respectively.  Since that is probably worst case (take off and initial climbout), you might want to size the radiator for your cruise power setting and plan on a bit of over temp on take off an climb out.  At a high power cruise setting (75%) you would need to cool 131 HP and that would drop your cooling requirements to around 4000 and 2000 btu/min respectively.  Any descent radiator design shop should be able to work with that type of information to get you close in size.  If you are constrained by the 17x8 area then perhaps a thicker radiator might be the  answer.  My calculations indicates that with a 17X8 you would need a radiator approx 5" thick to equal the core volume of two evaporator cores. 
 
However, a 5" thick radiator would require more dynamic airpressure (high airspeeds) than our 3.6" thick cores.  While I think you would do Ok with that thickness once airborne and at higher airspeeds, you might have ground cooling problems unless somehow aiding the airflow though the radiator.  But, at least I am confident you could cool adequately at cruise.
 
But, in any case, I think your currently planned radiator size is undersized.  FWIW - always keepin mind my knowledge of radiators and cooling is quite limited.
 
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:06 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Core vs Radistor was Re: [FlyRotary] radiator

 Rusty, what was the size of your radiator and the final determination about its adequacy?
 
Ed
 
 
This is revenge for those engine out comments, isn't it :-)
 
I started with a huge radiator, because it had (alleged) oil coolers in it.  The oil coolers didn't work out, and were bypassed, leaving only water cooling.   
 

The rad core width is 17.25, and the length as been changed.  Full length is 24.25”  (423 sq in) .  The length (not covered)  was first tested at 17.75 "   (306 sq in) .  The final length (not covered) was 12.625”  (218 sq in) .  HALF the original radiator.  The core is 2.25” thick if anyone is doing the math .   The other thing to consider is that the covered portion of the radiator is only covered on the front side.  The back side is open.  While there is no air passing through, turbulent air around the back side will still be removing some heat from the covered section.  There is also a 2" thick oil cooler behind the uncovered area of radiator, so overall, this is about 4.5" thick.   

 

Here is a chart of inlet, rad size, and temps for climb at around 100- 110 mph.   The cheek outlet is fixed at about 66 sq in,  and the bottom opening is about 83 sq in.   OAT is ground temp, not in-flight.   

 

Date    |Inlet (sq in)|  Rad core (sq in)  |  water temp F     |  oil temp F         | OAT | comments

 

             80              |  423                      |  <180 (t-stat)     |  180                    |  80    |  bottom outlet open

             80              |  306                      |  <180 (t-stat)     |  180                    |  80    |  bottom outlet open

10-18 | 48               |  306                      |  180 (no t-stat)  |  230                    |  75

10-18 | 80               |  218                      |  160 (no-t-stat)  |  185 (not max?)  |  70

10-19 | 80               |  218                      |  160 (no-t-stat)  |  220+                  |  80

11-01 | 80               |  218                      |  160 (no t-stat)  |  200                     |  80   |  bottom outlet open 

 

My current (changes every week) plan is to go with a core that is still 2.25" thick, but gives me about 300 sq inches of frontal area.  That will be more than I need now, but since I'll be putting the oil cooler in front of it to lower the oil temps, I'll need more radiator than I do now.  

 

One final comment about expensive radiators, I wouldn't buy one, unless you have a very good reason to believe it will be just what you need.  For example, I'll be retiring an $800+ dollar radiator with my rev-2 cowl. 

 

Cheers,

Rusty

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster