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Hey, Hey! Mark.
Records are made to be broken – so be
careful, who knows when the next pilot will break my 12 mile glide record
{:>). Besides, it wasn’t the engine’s fault, it wasn’t even the spark
plugs fault, it wasn’t even Mogas at fault. Just to put the record straight
for those who might not have heard the story – the flop tube in the right wing
tank fell off its fitting inside the tank preventing the engine from using the
last 3 ˝ gallons (can normally use down to the last cup) and the pilot failed
to take proper corrective action (like switching tanks - because he had it all
figured out that it was a plugged fuel filter – wrong!).
Ed
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008
9:11 AM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Jeffco
Problem...worst day as a builder
No, my tanks are both still virgins (no ethanol). I test
each batch for alcohol content (to quote Ronald Regan, "trust but
verify"). With a 94 gallon capacity, I have yet to refuel
away from my home base. So far, Texas
doesn't mandate 10% ethanol in their auto fuel. If/when that happens, I
will have no choice but to switch to 100LL. Ed Anderson runs 100LL (maybe
that isn't such a great example; after all, Ed holds the deadstick record for
rotary-powered a/c.) ;-) Anyway, so far all is good. My tanks
are sealed with Jeffco 9700 (?), the light grey stuff that was meant for
sealing floors in industrial applications. My concern is at the seams
where the Jeffco doesn't cover. You only have Hysol along those
seams. I've heard horror stories of ethanol attacking the Hysol... not
good! So, when the time comes, I'll have no choice but to switch to 100LL.
The only possibility is if the state doesn't add ethanol to premium
gasoline. If that's the case, I could switch to 97UL.
On 8/12/08, Bill
Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Hi Mark,
My tanks
were sealed with ProSeal. I am concerned now that Florida has gone to all 10% ethanol.
Do you know of any problems that the alcohol might cause with our tanks?
What did you seal yours with? Have you had any ethanol in yours yet?
I need to
fill my tanks in order to calibrate my gauges, but I am afraid to do so with
the ethanol because it will be in the tanks for a long time…probably till I fly
it out! I don't really want to use av gas either because of the plug
fouling. What to do, What to do!??
I see you
are up to 70 hrs now. How is everything? I haven't heard that you
had any problems at all???
Bill
B
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008
9:41 AM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Jeffco
Problem...worst day as a builder
Sorry to
hear of the bad news. Some of the Lancair builders used the Lancair
factory wing jig during the factory builder's assist program and ended up with
a twist in their wings. It turns out that the factory jig was wrong
(twisted). A number of them shipped their wings back to the factory,
pried the skins off using heat guns and putty knives and then reassembled
them using the new jig. Not a pleasant task, but they wanted it
right and were not willing to accept anything else. I say this just to
say that you're in good company and we're all cheering for you. Do what
it takes to make it right.
On
8/12/08, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
wrote:
Gee, Chris, what kind of comment can be made about the kind
of situation – sort of makes your engine problems seem pale by
comparison. Only thing I can think of is much better to find out now – on
the ground – than later in the air. Not being a fiberglass guy, I can
only say that I hope it is not as bad as it looks.
Looks like to me you are getting the right parties involved –
hopefully, the fix will not be too extensive. Hope you have a better day
tomorrow.
Ed
From: Rotary
motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
On Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008
10:29 PM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Jeffco
Problem...worst day as a builder
Well,
this was the worst builder day I have had. That includes the day I realized I
had to build a new rotary engine, which, btw, was running better each day
before this fuel issue developed.
As the collective from the various list I am on may recall, I have had
persistent fuel leak issues. A few weeks ago I had a visit from the fine men of
the Ellington/JSC/NASA fire department when I leaked a few gallons on to the
hangar floor while I was at home sleeping late. Also, I thought my original
clear factory tubes failed due to ethanol. They had turned color and became
brittle (turns out they had not YET leaked.
I tried sucking new Jeffco into where I thought the leak was (very hard to
reach area behind the spar. I found a loose hard point and since I was having
some fuel seep through the floor of my cabin I thought maybe the fuel was
seeping in behind the hard point into the foam to the cabin floor. Since the
two hard points from the strake fuel line were both put in per plans years ago
(before my choice to use a rotary, thus auto fuel) they were installed with
EZ-84/flox. Since the flox around the loose hard point seemed a bit
"off" I decided to redo both of them with Jeffco. At the same time I
also took out the factory fuel elbow fittings as mentioned above and installed
Vance Atkinson's gages. I did this over the last few days.
I thought all was well, but when I added fuel to the right strake only, I still
had fuel seeping through the cabin floor. So, I am having fuel leak though the
inner foam. I spoke with Velocity, Inc who stated I could either go into the
inner skin around the stake storage area or cut a hole in the top of the strake
to find the leak. I chose to go into the top of the strake as I thought it
would be better to not try to patch a leak from the outside. So, I cut a hole
in the strake to apply Jeffco to try to find/cure the leak.
EEEEEEAAAAAKKKKK. I opened up the top right strake and the Jeffco on the top of
the strake was sitting in the bottom of the tank. OMG!!!!. Almost all the
Jeffco from the top of the strake had fallen off. It was all flaky and not
adhering. Also, a number of places from the sides and bottom had also fallen
off.
I called Velocity, Inc and they said they had never had this issue before. They
suggested I look in the other stake to see if the problem was there too. We
discussed when I applied it and how. Now guys and gals, I am not a complete
incompetent. I know I sanded stakes before I applied the Jeffco, I mixed it
well and per instructions. Also, the top strake Jeffco was applied at a
different time/batch from the sides/bottom. The Velocity top strake is a
pre-built piece and is laid on the strake sides/bottom in a separate step and
the Jeffco is applied to the top before you seal it, then you seal it with more
Jeffco.
I have never had more than about 20 gallons of fuel in the system (about 60
total capacity). I have had the fuel sit in the strakes for a long while
though. I used the Jeffco since it is supposed to be more resistant to fuels
like diesel and auto, even with ethanol...at least that was my understanding.
Some ares of the strakes seem pretty good (but I don't trust any of it now). I
did get TWO, one gallon kits of Jeffco back when I did this part of the build.
My first thought is that perhaps one of the buckets was a bad batch. Donno.
I did cut into the pilot strake too. It was not as bad. The top of the strake
looks good, but I do have some flaking on the sides. There are four
compartments in each strake. I cut into one on the co-pilot side, and three on
the pilot side so far. One on the pilot side seems perfect (so far). The
inconsistency has me confused currently. But to be honest, after dealing with
this for a while and trying to be philosophical about it...such as I would much
rather find it now, I walked away and worked on re-attaching my ailerons after
balancing them.
So,
it seems many of those other fuel issue may have not been the problem I thought
they were....this does seem to be the cause for when the fire department came
out as that leak just seem to happen. When I pressure tested this system
a few years back, all seemed fine.
I am posting the pix on the Canardzone but I am posting this message on a few
sites like FlyRotary and the Velocity Builders site. The factory asked me to
post too so they could have a look and determine if this may be a isolated
incident (such as me missing something big) OR if it could be a bigger problem.
Well, here are some of the pix I took....if they are blurry, don't worry, it is
only my tears......
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