X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.238] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2936330 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 May 2008 22:35:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.238; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id r21so777610wxc.25 for ; Fri, 23 May 2008 19:34:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=YTKnpVP1/ypa3qpMsMa/iOUSdxenPk+Na+md8O26lh8=; b=Ns4qt62BpCNkiNJFyF8uJxoAv7+EkBQIkWhG2VbLeHRgznxFVJARl2VOEWqJuTpAOkAv/jJ5ngFSwj2hsQewQlqyK1iwdigYG3YiNsyja0XnzYBpIwQ/gaSyvkVGxPj+ffjG7ofpu50h2864fQuA2SY8QkGdWiYVO4tUWFzCuDo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FmEUL0QWl3rxZ6Em6W29gnis4IklT06zrfriIPoM0hM8KZZbvLeZeFSZuftphx/ykhwrvI6S1j58+1CFeIa9jHvv0pnCGYGTB9C11FrWLXlpRkmpYZscLzVUvQl6IhR0AGH7jNcakM7KQZck6D06Mgx6xQLNiuJDLRvyVNZ7Jp0= Received: by 10.70.12.2 with SMTP id 2mr2540424wxl.43.1211596470022; Fri, 23 May 2008 19:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.74.18 with HTTP; Fri, 23 May 2008 19:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0805231934r3d4e2126g53bd0a3757721111@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:34:29 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fuel Filtering Problem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13098_10252364.1211596470002" References: ------=_Part_13098_10252364.1211596470002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Bill, Kelly could be on to something as far as the source of the black sludge. M= y only thought is that possibly an o-ring in the Andair valve was the source, especially if it came in contact with alcohol. You can't be too careful when it comes to the fuel system. So, keep at it until you've found and fixed the problem. Mark On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > I could use a little help on this problem. I apologize for the length= . > > > > My engine recently started to show signs of fuel starvation. Cutting out > above about 3K rpm. It would just seem to go from 3K to idle. I was > running on my primary fuel pump, so I turned on the secondary and the eng= ine > would start to run normally. (Not like gangbusters, but NORMALLY. My ma= x > static rpm has been about 52-5300 rpm and I have felt that it was not > getting enough fuel to run up to my goal of 6K static) > > > > I decided that I had a filter plugged, and fearing the gasohol that they > are now selling all over Florida, I opened up my Gascolator. It was ok. = I > found a couple of wisps of white fibers. Could be fiberglass dust, could= be > spider webs, something like that. I don't think that I have had any > gasohol in the plane, but it is probably possible. But the Gascolator wa= s > fine. > > > > I then opened up the JEGS inline filter on the primary pump and the eleme= nt > was covered with a black sludge. It seemed to be almost completely > blocked. This stuff looked like maybe it could have come from the inside= of > the SS braided hose. > > > > I checked the secondary pumps filter and it was fine. I have not used th= is > secondary pump except on rare occasions to check for pressure changes, > leaks, etc.. > > > > But for that matter, I have only run three 5 gal cans of gas in the plane > totally. One 5 gal can in each wing, then another in the right side, and= I > am now pulling out of the left tank which has the fourth 5 gal in it. > > > > So, like I said, I at first thought that it was a rubber residue from whe= n > I installed the hose ends on the Aeroquip hoses because it sort of looked > like that. Then as I drove home, I remembered that there was none of thi= s > stuff in the Gascolator. (I think that some should have made it there as > there is one -8 hose in front of the Gascolator) There is only about a f= oot > of -8 hose in front of the fuel pumps after the Gascolator, so now I am > thinking that maybe it came from the fuel pump. > > > > Is there anything inside the pump that could cause a black sludge if it > started to crap out? What would I look for to check if the pump is out o= r > going out. Has anyone else had any similar problem? I recently heard a > squealing sound from the area of the pumps, but at the time I thought tha= t > it was bubbles going through the pump. I was close to empty on the right > tank and thought that it was sucking air. I switched tanks and the sound > went away. > > > > I have not yet checked my injectors. Two reasons: I have no idea of ho= w > to do it and would not know what to look for. Is the 40 micron screen fi= ne > enough to keep anything from getting plugged up in the injectors? If not= , > what do I look for, and where? > > > > I would greatly appreciate some input as to your thoughts on this. How > would you proceed? > > > > My fuel system goes: Finger strainer in tank, =BD inch aluminum line to > Andair dual valve (switches both supply and return to same tank), Aeroqui= p > -8 SS braided line, boost pump, Aeroquip -8 SS braided line, Andair > Gascolator, Aeroquip -8 SS braided line about one foot to splitter to tw= o > fuel pumps, (these are the pumps that Tracy sells), each pump is followed= by > a JEGS billet in line fuel filter with a stainless 40 micron element. Th= en > a splitter to bring them back together to Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, > primary injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, secondary injector ra= il, > Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, Aeroquip= -4 > SS braided line to the valve and back to the tank. The tanks are fibergl= ass > with ProSeal. This is a Lancair Legacy, Renesis engine. > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Bill B > ------=_Part_13098_10252364.1211596470002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Bill,

Kelly could be on to something as far as the source of the bl= ack sludge.  My only thought is that possibly an o-ring in the Andair = valve was the source, especially if it came in contact with alcohol.  = You can't be too careful when it comes to the fuel system.  So, ke= ep at it until you've found and fixed the problem.

Mark


On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 5:40= PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradbu= rry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

 I could use a little help on this problem.  I apologize for t= he length.

 

My engine recently started to show signs of fuel starvation. Cutting out above about 3K rpm.  It would just seem to go from 3K to idle.&nbs= p; I was running on my primary fuel pump, so I turned on the secondary and the engin= e would start to run normally.  (Not like gangbusters, but NORMALLY.&nbs= p; My max static rpm has been about 52-5300 rpm and I have felt that it was not getting enou= gh fuel to run up to my goal of 6K static)

 

I decided that I had a filter plugged,  and fearing the gasohol tha= t they are now selling all over Florida, I opened up my Gascolator.  It was ok.  I found a couple of wisps= of white fibers.  Could be fiberglass dust, could be spider  webs, somethi= ng like that.  I don't think that I have had any gasohol in the plane, but it is probably possible.  But the Gascolator was fine.

 

I then opened up the JEGS inline filter on the primary pump and the element was covered with a black sludge.  It seemed to be almost compl= etely blocked.  This stuff looked like maybe it could have come from the inside of the SS braided hose. 

 

I checked the secondary pumps filter and it was fine.  I have not u= sed this secondary pump except on rare occasions to check for pressure changes, leaks, etc..

 

But for that matter, I have only run three 5 gal cans of gas in the plane totally.  One 5 gal can in each wing, then another in the right = side, and I am now pulling out of the left tank which has the fourth 5 gal in it.

 

So, like I said, I at first thought that it was a rubber residue from when I installed the hose ends on the Aeroquip hoses because it sort of loo= ked like that.  Then as I drove home, I remembered that there was none of = this stuff in the Gascolator.  (I think that some should have made it there= as there is one -8 hose in front of the Gascolator)  There is only about a foot= of -8 hose in front of the fuel pumps after the Gascolator, so now I am thinking = that maybe it came from the fuel pump.

 

Is there anything inside the pump that could cause a black sludge if it started to crap out?  What would I look for to check if the pump is ou= t or going out.  Has anyone else had any similar problem?  I recently = heard a squealing sound from the area of the pumps, but at the time I thought that = it was bubbles going through the pump.  I was close to empty on the right= tank and thought that it was sucking air.  I switched tanks and the sound went = away.

 

I have not yet checked my injectors.  Two  reasons:  I ha= ve no idea of how to do it and would not know what to look for.  Is the 40 micron sc= reen fine enough to keep anything from getting plugged up in the injectors?  If = not, what do I look for, and where?

 

I would greatly appreciate some input as to your thoughts on this. = How would you proceed?

 

My fuel system goes: Finger strainer in tank, =BD inch aluminum line to Andair dual valve (switches both supply and return to same tank), Aeroquip = -8 SS braided line, boost pump, Aeroquip -8 SS braided line, Andair Gascolator, &= nbsp;Aeroquip -8 SS braided line about one foot to splitter to two fuel pumps, (these are= the pumps that Tracy sells), each pump is followed by a JEGS billet in line fue= l filter with a stainless 40 micron element.  Then a splitter to bring t= hem back together to Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, primary injector rail, Aeroquip -6= SS braided line, secondary injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, Aeromot= ive fuel pressure regulator, Aeroquip -4 SS braided line to the valve and back = to the tank.  The tanks are fiberglass  with ProSeal.  This is = a Lancair Legacy, Renesis engine.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Bill B


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