X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2936218 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 May 2008 20:41:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080524004113.PITF5514.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Sat, 24 May 2008 00:41:13 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c8bd36$e1b49110$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fuel Filtering Problem Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 20:41:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8BD15.5A5DD1C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8BD15.5A5DD1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I can't provide any suggestions as I have not (yet) experienced = the black sludge problem. However, I was surprised to find a number of = references to black sludge in fuel (here are a few) - apparently due to = different possible causes - but, the first reference addresses = fiberglass tanks and ethanol as a potential cause. Its possible that your good pump simply did not have as much of fuel = flowing through it might be why it did/hasnot suffered similarly. Hope this helps. =20 Ed http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012667.html http://www.caa.govt.nz/safety_info/fuel_22mar04.htm http://www.rvservicereviews.com/ReviewDetails.asp?Submit=3D&FacilityID=3D= 762&State=3DFL&Search=3D&CategoryID=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel Filtering Problem I could use a little help on this problem. I apologize for the = length. =20 My engine recently started to show signs of fuel starvation. Cutting = out above about 3K rpm. It would just seem to go from 3K to idle. I = was running on my primary fuel pump, so I turned on the secondary and = the engine would start to run normally. (Not like gangbusters, but = NORMALLY. My max static rpm has been about 52-5300 rpm and I have felt = that it was not getting enough fuel to run up to my goal of 6K static) =20 I decided that I had a filter plugged, and fearing the gasohol that = they are now selling all over Florida, I opened up my Gascolator. It = was ok. I found a couple of wisps of white fibers. Could be fiberglass = dust, could be spider webs, something like that. I don't think that I = have had any gasohol in the plane, but it is probably possible. But the = Gascolator was fine. =20 I then opened up the JEGS inline filter on the primary pump and the = element was covered with a black sludge. It seemed to be almost = completely blocked. This stuff looked like maybe it could have come = from the inside of the SS braided hose. =20 =20 I checked the secondary pumps filter and it was fine. I have not used = this secondary pump except on rare occasions to check for pressure = changes, leaks, etc.. =20 But for that matter, I have only run three 5 gal cans of gas in the = plane totally. One 5 gal can in each wing, then another in the right = side, and I am now pulling out of the left tank which has the fourth 5 = gal in it. =20 So, like I said, I at first thought that it was a rubber residue from = when I installed the hose ends on the Aeroquip hoses because it sort of = looked like that. Then as I drove home, I remembered that there was = none of this stuff in the Gascolator. (I think that some should have = made it there as there is one -8 hose in front of the Gascolator) There = is only about a foot of -8 hose in front of the fuel pumps after the = Gascolator, so now I am thinking that maybe it came from the fuel pump. =20 Is there anything inside the pump that could cause a black sludge if = it started to crap out? What would I look for to check if the pump is = out or going out. Has anyone else had any similar problem? I recently = heard a squealing sound from the area of the pumps, but at the time I = thought that it was bubbles going through the pump. I was close to = empty on the right tank and thought that it was sucking air. I switched = tanks and the sound went away. =20 I have not yet checked my injectors. Two reasons: I have no idea of = how to do it and would not know what to look for. Is the 40 micron = screen fine enough to keep anything from getting plugged up in the = injectors? If not, what do I look for, and where? =20 I would greatly appreciate some input as to your thoughts on this. = How would you proceed? =20 My fuel system goes: Finger strainer in tank, =BD inch aluminum line = to Andair dual valve (switches both supply and return to same tank), = Aeroquip -8 SS braided line, boost pump, Aeroquip -8 SS braided line, = Andair Gascolator, Aeroquip -8 SS braided line about one foot to = splitter to two fuel pumps, (these are the pumps that Tracy sells), each = pump is followed by a JEGS billet in line fuel filter with a stainless = 40 micron element. Then a splitter to bring them back together to = Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, primary injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS = braided line, secondary injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, = Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, Aeroquip -4 SS braided line to the = valve and back to the tank. The tanks are fiberglass with ProSeal. = This is a Lancair Legacy, Renesis engine. =20 Thanks for the help. =20 Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8BD15.5A5DD1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, I can't provide any suggestions = as I have=20 not (yet) experienced the black sludge problem.  However, I was = surprised=20 to find a number of references to black sludge in fuel (here are a few) = -=20 apparently due to different possible causes - but, the first reference = addresses=20 fiberglass tanks and ethanol as a potential cause.
 
Its possible that your good pump simply = did not=20 have as much of fuel flowing through it might be why it did/hasnot = suffered=20 similarly.
 
Hope this helps. 
 
Ed
 
http://con= tinuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012667.html
 
http://www.c= aa.govt.nz/safety_info/fuel_22mar04.htm
 
http://www.r= vservicereviews.com/ReviewDetails.asp?Submit=3D&FacilityID=3D762&= State=3DFL&Search=3D&CategoryID=3D
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 6:40 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel = Filtering=20 Problem

 I could use a little help on this = problem. =20 I apologize for the length.

 

My engine recently started to show signs of = fuel=20 starvation. Cutting out above about 3K rpm.  It would just seem = to go=20 from 3K to idle.  I was running on my primary fuel pump, so I = turned on=20 the secondary and the engine would start to run normally.  (Not = like=20 gangbusters, but NORMALLY.  My max static rpm has been about = 52-5300 rpm=20 and I have felt that it was not getting enough fuel to run up to my = goal of 6K=20 static)

 

I decided that I had a filter plugged,  = and=20 fearing the gasohol that they are now selling all over Florida, I = opened up my=20 Gascolator.  It was ok.  I found a couple of wisps of white=20 fibers.  Could be fiberglass dust, could be spider  webs, = something=20 like that.  I don=92t think that I have had any gasohol in the = plane, but=20 it is probably possible.  But the Gascolator was=20 fine.

 

I then opened up the JEGS inline filter on = the primary=20 pump and the element was covered with a black sludge.  It seemed = to be=20 almost completely blocked.  This stuff looked like maybe it could = have=20 come from the inside of the SS braided hose. =20

 

I checked the secondary pumps filter and it = was=20 fine.  I have not used this secondary pump except on rare = occasions to=20 check for pressure changes, leaks, etc..

 

But for that matter, I have only run three 5 = gal cans=20 of gas in the plane totally.  One 5 gal can in each wing, then = another in=20 the right side, and I am now pulling out of the left tank which has = the fourth=20 5 gal in it.

 

So, like I said, I at first thought that it = was a=20 rubber residue from when I installed the hose ends on the Aeroquip = hoses=20 because it sort of looked like that.  Then as I drove home, I = remembered=20 that there was none of this stuff in the Gascolator.  (I think = that some=20 should have made it there as there is one -8 hose in front of the=20 Gascolator)  There is only about a foot of -8 hose in front of = the fuel=20 pumps after the Gascolator, so now I am thinking that maybe it came = from the=20 fuel pump.

 

Is there anything inside the pump that could = cause a=20 black sludge if it started to crap out?  What would I look for to = check=20 if the pump is out or going out.  Has anyone else had any similar = problem?  I recently heard a squealing sound from the area of the = pumps,=20 but at the time I thought that it was bubbles going through the = pump.  I=20 was close to empty on the right tank and thought that it was sucking=20 air.  I switched tanks and the sound went=20 away.

 

I have not yet checked my injectors.  = Two =20 reasons:  I have no idea of how to do it and would not know what = to look=20 for.  Is the 40 micron screen fine enough to keep anything from = getting=20 plugged up in the injectors?  If not, what do I look for, and=20 where?

 

I would greatly appreciate some input as to = your=20 thoughts on this.  How would you = proceed?

 

My fuel system goes: Finger strainer in = tank, =BD inch=20 aluminum line to Andair dual valve (switches both supply and return to = same=20 tank), Aeroquip -8 SS braided line, boost pump, Aeroquip -8 SS braided = line,=20 Andair Gascolator,  Aeroquip -8 SS braided line about one foot to = splitter to two fuel pumps, (these are the pumps that Tracy sells), = each pump=20 is followed by a JEGS billet in line fuel filter with a stainless 40 = micron=20 element.  Then a splitter to bring them back together to Aeroquip = -6 SS=20 braided line, primary injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, = secondary=20 injector rail, Aeroquip -6 SS braided line, Aeromotive fuel pressure=20 regulator, Aeroquip -4 SS braided line to the valve and back to the=20 tank.  The tanks are fiberglass  with ProSeal.  This is = a=20 Lancair Legacy, Renesis engine.

 

Thanks for the = help.

 

Bill=20 B

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