Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #42687
From: Richard Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Jet-A
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 10:48:35 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Ed,
 
what you described is exactly why it is so hard to come up with a good working, spark ignition, heavy fuel(diesel/JP) engine. It seems that in order to solving this problem one would have to beat basic physics.
 
The real diesel only works because most of the fuel droplets combust at the same time, eliminating the influence of flame propagation velocity.
 
FW
 
Richard Sohn
N2071U
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:50 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Jet-A

Thanks for the vote of confidence(I think), Mark. 
 
I don't know, but I suspect there would be a problem with Jet A in the typical rotary as well.  Here is my very initial take on what the major problem "Might" be trying to run on Jet A.
 
The flash point of gasoline is nominally around - 45F whereas the flashpoint of Jet A fuel ranges from 102 - 104F.   So more energy is required to ignite it even if the fuel mixture is in a "combustible" state.
 
The Reid vapor point of JP fuels vary but figures for Jet A as low as 0.1 psi can be found whereas it appears to  vary from 9 - 14.7 psi for automobile gasoline (these figures are apparently mandate by various federal and state requirements) .   The vapor point basically relates to how easily the fuel will turn into a vapor which is required for ignition.  The higher the vapor point the more easily converted to vapor - is my understanding.
 
To ignite and permit propagation of the flame front each fuel type vapor content must fall between a minimum and upper limit of concentration as a mixture.  For example this mixture for gasoline is between 1% (min) and 6% (maximum), but it varies for different fuels.  Naturally, our fuel system is designed to meet the mixture limits for gasoline.
 
So My best guess is that give the higher flash point required, given the much lower volatility (lower vapor pressure) and the different mixture limits  of Jet A  is that neither a ordinary piston engine nor the ordinary rotary would have much success in running on Jet A.. 
 
However, I am not a fuel/combustion chemist nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:31 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Jet-A

OK, here's a question out of left field.  A Lancair recently went down in AZ right after being refueled.  On the Lancair list, the speculation is that it was fueled with Jet-A.  I was curious, if this happened to a rotary, would it run (continue to produce power) on jet-a or would the engine quit?  I speculate that due to the fuel pumps continuously circulating the fuel to the fuel rails and back to the tank, it probably wouldn't even start, but if it did, would it continue to run on the mix of jet-a and mogas?   I guess it depends on the ratio of mogas to jet-a.  Assuming that the fuel was almost 100% jet-A, would it still run? 

Ed, you've pretty much had everything happen to you that can possibly happen in an airplane, what-you-say? 


Mark S.


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