X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with ESMTP id 2836537 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:01:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.182.185; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 30so835574nfu.27 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=8KVCnLDsaPaFQONhS2a6k9EIEF4F4WfYwaAbDaSKRpA=; b=JvPDOQRZG8XIbI0NB6WjDopkbF6+EZNpFUQ0wgtOiglZO5DFfhsuV5GKx2Byx0hDXykZkhH868lUOTX9DBCjCItH2K4TpuPY4fGi+NP3CjXvx3qc6QZ9f+T/n6MI9eRa760kKjiLWOXfv3CsDsRSTdlTHOVAshcgNLugwfDFv8c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=crlIP0hujLtPJOAME33NQRbcLXRdiinu37NuDSvWBtW3FpDzoGW5bhOal3wwtqso3BsWoj2C935PokbJvi6bFOugKwAvY6gs0SQloKuCFfPjv9J/85JY/e+3blsMk0mBEKjfStKjDPSEqp3LhMzxeDPKiXJ7ay2oNQN74QuS0zM= Received: by 10.150.226.15 with SMTP id y15mr3061951ybg.145.1207616458822; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.185.7 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c23473f0804071800m7e03593eq1b8656b0c98a3797@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:00:58 -0700 From: "David Leonard" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Request (for those already flying...) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10571_14147569.1207616458502" References: ------=_Part_10571_14147569.1207616458502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There is not doubt that I would have been at least several knots faster with a C/S prop. I could even pick up a couple knots average time with a little less pitch in my current prop. A two-bladed prop would have improved efficiency somewhat as well. But that would have been well offset by increased fuel burn. I have gotten several comments from the guys in the local group commenting on how surprised they were were at how well the rotary did in terms of fuel burn. I have to admit that I was rather surprised as well. I think that the major objection to the rotary is often the excess fuel consumption and not the thought that it can't make enough power. So in that sense, I think I did more for the reputation by being modest in both consumption and speed rather than going really fast and burning a lot of fuel. Most people also realize that I was also disadvantaged by the fixed pitch and 3-bladed prop and are impressed that I still essentially tied for second among the side-by-side aircraft. The other important reason for keeping a fixed pitch prop is clearly the cost. Not just from my pocket book, but to make a statement as well. If we are using alternative engines to save on the exorbitant costs of certified engines, then it does not make much sense to spend thousands on the prop. My engine/prop package cost at least $15k less than anyone else in the race and by using MOGAS my fuel costs were less than anyone who was going for speed. That is what is cool! Though, I must admit, it would always be nice to be the "Fastest Mother F'er" :-) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:42 AM, wrote: > Good Job David, > > I am pleased to see the cost per mile listed and the fact that using mogas > WAS a factor. It would be very interesting to see your results with a > electric constant speed. Good as is though! Looks like it was a fun event. > Bill Jepson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Anderson > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 9:52 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Request (for those already flying...) > > Impressive results, David. Upheld the rotary flag very well! > > Ed > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:39 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Request (for those already flying...) > > OK Doug, > > Here is one for you. Yesterday we had the first semi-annual Sharpie 500 > RV race. It was a blast, with a lot good times and trash talking. But > mostly it was a relaxing cooperative atmosphere. My fixed pitch rotary RV-6 > held its own with its over-pitched 3-blade prop against 180hp and 200hp RV's > all with constant speed props. > > The results are posted at the bottom of the page: > > http://rvproject.com/race.html > > Two of the planes were not going for speed, but best economy. The two > fastest were tandem aircraft with a significant advantage there. Two guys > were running rich of peak (rivet and Eddie). I was running at best power. > > If the overall speeds seem a little low compared to other race results its > because 1) we were all mostly doing something in improve efficiency a little > (for example, I climbed to 8.5k) 2) there was a 35kt quartering cross wind > 3) It was very bumpy 4)terrain required a climb to at least 5.5k to just > squeak over the ridge. So don't be fooled, those are some very fast > planes. I was seeing true air speeds in excess of 190 kts most of the way > back. Dan Checkoways plane in particular is an aberration. > > Good times. Keep building, its worth it. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM, wrote: > > > I for one would love to read about some flying experiences some of you > > guys are having of late...weather is improving so I'd hope there were a few > > of you making rotary noise out there somewhere!!!??? > > > > Reading about how your engine and supporting systems are performing and > > the little challenges you are overcoming is a real motivator for me (and > > others?) to get back out there and make some progress on my > > (our) project(s), especially when I (we) start feeling overwhelmed by > > the daily routine of job, yard work, house projects, etc, etc, etc. > > > > So how about throwing us "a bone" once in a while? > > > > Blue Skies! > > > > Doug Lomheim > > OK City, OK > > RV-9A, FWF > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar, > Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! > ------=_Part_10571_14147569.1207616458502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There is not doubt that I would have been at least several knots faster with a C/S prop.  I could even pick up a couple knots average time with a little less pitch in my current prop.  A two-bladed prop would have improved efficiency somewhat as well.  But that would have been well offset by increased fuel burn.

I have gotten several comments from the guys in the local group commenting on how surprised they were were at how well the rotary did in terms of fuel burn.  I have to admit that I was rather surprised as well.  I think that the major objection to the rotary is often the excess fuel consumption and not the thought that it can't make enough power.  So in that sense, I think I did more for the reputation by being modest in both consumption and speed rather than going really fast and burning a lot of fuel.

Most people also realize that I was also disadvantaged by the fixed pitch and 3-bladed prop and are impressed that I still essentially tied for second among the side-by-side aircraft.

The other important reason for keeping a fixed pitch prop is clearly the cost.  Not just from my pocket book, but to make a statement as well.  If we are using alternative engines to save on the exorbitant costs of certified engines, then it does not make much sense to spend thousands on the prop.

My engine/prop package cost at least $15k less than anyone else in the race and by using MOGAS my fuel costs were less than anyone who was going for speed.  That is what is cool!

Though, I must admit, it would always be nice to be the "Fastest Mother F'er"  :-)
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:42 AM, <wrjjrs@aol.com> wrote:
Good Job David,

I am pleased to see the cost per mile listed and the fact that using mogas WAS a factor. It would be very interesting to see your results with a electric constant speed. Good as is though! Looks like it was a fun event.
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 9:52 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Request (for those already flying...)

Impressive results, David.  Upheld the rotary flag very well!
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Request (for those already flying...)

OK Doug,

Here is one for you.  Yesterday we had the first semi-annual Sharpie 500  RV race.  It was a blast, with a lot good times and trash talking.  But mostly it was a relaxing cooperative atmosphere.  My fixed pitch rotary RV-6 held its own with its over-pitched 3-blade prop against 180hp and 200hp RV's all with constant speed props.

The results are posted at the bottom of the page:

http://rvproject.com/race.html

Two of the planes were not going for speed, but best economy.  The two fastest were tandem aircraft with a significant advantage there. Two guys were running rich of peak (rivet and Eddie).  I was running at best power.

If the overall speeds seem a little low compared to other race results its because 1) we were all mostly doing something in improve efficiency a little (for example, I climbed to 8.5k) 2) there was a 35kt quartering cross wind 3) It was very bumpy 4)terrain required a climb to at least 5.5k to just squeak over the ridge.  So don't be fooled, those are some very fast planes.  I was seeing true air speeds in excess of 190 kts most of the way back.  Dan Checkoways plane in particular is an aberration.

Good times.  Keep building, its worth it.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM, <DLOMHEIM@aol.com> wrote:
I for one would love to read about some flying experiences some of you guys are having of late...weather is improving so I'd hope there were a few of you making rotary noise out there somewhere!!!??? 
 
Reading about how your engine and supporting systems are performing and the little challenges you are overcoming is a real motivator for me (and others?) to get back out there and make some progress on my (our) project(s), especially when I (we) start feeling overwhelmed by the daily routine of job, yard work, house projects, etc, etc, etc.
 
So how about throwing us "a bone" once in a while?  
 
Blue Skies!
 
Doug Lomheim
OK City, OK
RV-9A, FWF





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