X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with ESMTP id 2827860 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:27:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080401182630.CHAT13750.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:26:30 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c89425$f73ed4d0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Super-Tech was [FlyRotary] Re: 2-stroke oil Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:26:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C89404.6FE81580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C89404.6FE81580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, yes, Mark, important point! Since it is not mineral based, there is less lowering of Octane rating = of fuel mixture and therefore less likely hood of detonation. This = enables me to run those rare 20:1 compression ratio rotors and produce = over 300HP with my 13B. Couldn't do it without my Super-Tech Wall-Mart = Oil. But, don't tell anyone else my secret {:>) Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Super-Tech was [FlyRotary] Re: 2-stroke oil Ed,=20 Interesting that it says it is synthetic based. =20 Mark =20 On 4/1/08, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Al, back some time ago when I was using some very expensive 2 stroke = oils (like over $4.00/quart) , I decided to do some research. I came to = the conclusion that the Marine 2 stroke oils were probably as good as = was needed for our Rotary application. Some of the 2 stroke oils = designed for air cooled engines apparently have different formulations = to cope with the higher temps associated. In any case, I decided the = Wall-Mart Marine 2 stroke Super-Tech which meets TC-W3 standards(on the = back label) (and much less costly) was more than good enough. I no longer can find the source, but this oil was reportedly = produced by PENNZOIL for Wall-Mart. http://pennzoil.com/products/marine/index.html I have been using it for 4 years without any problem. FWIW Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2-stroke oil =20 For the premix oil I use any good BIA cert. TCW-3 2-stroke oil = mixed 50-50 with MMO both of which come from Walmart. Any of the = Redline 2-stroke oils would be excellent, including the snomobile stuff. The only 2-stroke oil I could find at the local Walmart was called = Super-Tech, and I couldn't find any certifications on it anywhere. Is = MMO proven for this application? My research also indicates that the = TCW-3 rating only is not recommended for watercraft (water-cooled = engines), where the NMMA rating is required. So do we best get the stuff = for air-cooled 2-stroke =96 which probably run hotter; the stuff for = watercraft =96 which probably run cooler; or something else (other than = Redline). Or is there no data to support a choice and I'm = over-analyzing and it doesn't matter anyway. Let us know if you notice any change when you go to premix. My = old 1988 RX-7 felt spunkier when I started using premix in it but it was = an old 150K mile beater. If you were doing the 50-50 MMO at the time, that could make a = difference. It contains both toluene and xylene which are very = combustible. Some 2-stroke oils contain other octane enhancers. The = Super-Tech is 'pre-diluted' ("with what"? you may ask) to make it mix = more readily with fuel. =20 What Pre-mix ratio?? IIRC, I've heard on this list to use about 1 = oz per gallon, which is about 130:1. Most 2-stroke applications are = somewhere in the 20 to 50 : 1. Al (Still grounded working on mods) ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C89404.6FE81580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah, yes, Mark, important = point!
 
  Since it is not mineral based, = there is=20 less lowering of Octane rating of fuel mixture and therefore less likely = hood of=20 detonation.  This enables me to run those rare 20:1 compression = ratio=20 rotors and produce over 300HP with my 13B.  Couldn't do it without = my=20 Super-Tech Wall-Mart Oil.  But, don't tell anyone else my secret=20 {:>)
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 = 2:06=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Super-Tech was=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 2-stroke oil

Ed,
 
Interesting that it says it is synthetic based. 
 
Mark

 
On 4/1/08, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Al, back some time ago when I was = using some=20 very expensive 2 stroke oils (like over $4.00/quart) , I decided to = do some=20 research.  I came to the conclusion that the Marine 2 stroke = oils were=20 probably as good as was needed for our = Rotary application.  Some=20 of the 2 stroke oils designed for air cooled engines apparently have = different formulations to cope with the higher temps = associated.  In=20 any case, I decided the Wall-Mart Marine 2 stroke Super-Tech which = meets=20 TC-W3 standards(on the back label) (and much less costly) was = more than=20 good enough.
 
I no longer can find the source, = but this oil=20 was reportedly produced by PENNZOIL for Wall-Mart.
 
http://pennzoil.com/products/marine/index.html=
 
I have been using it for 4 years = without any=20 problem.
 
FWIW
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Al Gietzen =
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, = 2008 12:48=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 2-stroke=20 oil

 

For the premix oil I use any good BIA = cert. TCW-3=20 2-stroke oil mixed 50-50 with MMO  both of which come from=20 Walmart.  Any of the Redline 2-stroke oils would be = excellent,=20 including the snomobile stuff.

 

The = only=20 2-stroke oil I could find at the local Walmart was called = Super-Tech, and=20 I couldn't find any certifications on it anywhere.  Is MMO = proven for=20 this application?  My research also indicates that the TCW-3 = rating=20 only is not recommended for watercraft (water-cooled engines), = where the=20 NMMA rating is required. So do we best get the stuff for = air-cooled=20 2-stroke =96 which probably run hotter; the stuff for watercraft = =96 which=20 probably run cooler; or something else (other than Redline). =  Or is=20 there no data to support a choice and I'm over-analyzing and it = doesn't=20 matter anyway.

 

Let us know if you notice any change = when you go=20 to premix.  My old 1988 RX-7 felt spunkier when I started = using=20 premix in it but it was an old 150K mile beater.

If = you were=20 doing the 50-50 MMO at the time, that could make a = difference.  It=20 contains both toluene and xylene which are very combustible. Some = 2-stroke=20 oils contain other octane enhancers.  The Super-Tech is = 'pre-diluted'=20 ("with what"? you may ask) to make it mix more readily with = fuel. =20

 

What = Pre-mix=20 ratio??  IIRC,=20 I've heard on this list to use about 1 oz per gallon, which is = about=20 130:1.  Most 2-stroke applications are somewhere in the 20 to = 50 :=20 1.

 

Al = (Still=20 grounded working on=20 = mods)

=
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