X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.199] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with ESMTPS id 2824968 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:03:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.199; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d58-109-51-32.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [58.109.51.32]) by mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m2UL2Pu2023029 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:02:26 +1100 Message-ID: <002901c892a9$5cb67990$20336d3a@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Proposed oil pan. Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:02:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C892FD.2DAAF960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0657-0, 12/12/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C892FD.2DAAF960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, Not being familiar with any of these types of systems, I would = appreciate anything you might suggest. A picture speaks a thousand = words, in this case drawings. George (down under) The system shown, works at over one "G" of deceleration (45 degrees) = plus the nose of the car pitching down a degree or two. The airplane = problem is then that this attitude will be maintained for a number of = seconds. Even that would be a long time. One "G" would produce a 45 = degree oil level line. More likely an evasion maneuver of some kind, in = an aircraft, as anything close to 45 degrees would be very = uncomfortable, even in a departure situation. If this attitude were to be held for some length of time there would = be the problem of oil from the front main bearing not returning to the = sump, with a gate of some kind. You could dummy up an engine an clamp on = flat plates and a gasket to determine how much oil would be retained = ahead of the hole. I suspect that even this is no problem. Other options for oil pan shapes are available. The pan need not be = symmetrical. The major volume might be displaced to one side or the = other, if space is needed for a radiator or other pieces. It could be = displaced to the front or the rear of the engine.=20 The pick up at the engine can be a steel dash 12 male brazed to the = tube. (I love braze) a flex dash 12 line is used to connect to another = dash 12 Male mated to the pickup fixed with screws in the bottom of the = pan. We did this in the Lotus Super 7 to keep the junk engines together. = (ford 3 main bearing 1300CC industrial engines). Then expanded to 1500CC = with a good 7 main crank Then to 1600CC as in the 71 Pinto. Damn fine = engine. Base for Cosworth engines but they were cast in high nickel of = course. We had one in Magnesium. Real good engine. Still available if = anyone needs it. =20 You can also use the upper end as above and run the dash 12 hose = through the side of the pan to a brazed in place bulkhead fitting. The = outside end of that fitting would be a dash 16. The pan need only be = deep enough to account for the hose. The outlet for the oil from the pan = then would be a 3" hose to a pot located anywhere below the engine. The = dash 16 hose would run alongside to the bottom of the pot to take oil = back to the pump. So long as the oil level on the dip stick shows close = to the stock oil level the pump works as stock. No problem.=20 Two more whole generations of oiling are available if you want a = single stage external pump, or, a whole dry-sump system. In that case = the pan is just a flat plate. I can draw them all, If anyone needs them. = Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 3/30/2008 11:51:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = keltro@att.net writes: Lynn, Just what I needed !! Thanks........What would be your thoughts about a hinged flap on the firewall end of the plate allow drain = back during normal or low pitch climb out but would close during high pitch climb to keep oil out of the front cover (Tractor = installation)? =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.=20 Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: = 29/03/2008 5:02 PM ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C892FD.2DAAF960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn,
Not being familiar with any of these types of systems, I would = appreciate=20 anything you might suggest. A picture speaks a thousand words, in this = case=20 drawings.
George (down under)
The system shown, works at over one "G" of deceleration (45 = degrees) plus=20 the nose of the car pitching down a degree or two. The airplane = problem is=20 then that this attitude will be maintained for a number of seconds. = Even that=20 would be a long time. One "G" would produce a 45 degree oil level = line. More=20 likely an evasion maneuver of some kind, in an aircraft, as anything = close to=20 45 degrees would be very uncomfortable, even in a departure = situation.
 
 If this attitude were to be held for some length of time = there=20 would be the problem of oil from the front main bearing not returning = to the=20 sump, with a gate of some kind. You could dummy up an engine an clamp = on flat=20 plates and a gasket to determine how much oil would be retained ahead = of the=20 hole. I suspect that even this is no problem.
 
Other options for oil pan shapes are available. The pan need not = be=20 symmetrical. The major volume might be displaced to one side or the = other, if=20 space is needed for a radiator or other pieces. It could be displaced = to the=20 front or the rear of the engine.
 
The pick up at the engine can be a steel dash 12 male brazed to = the tube.=20 (I love braze) a flex dash 12 line is used to connect to another dash = 12 Male=20 mated to the pickup fixed with screws in the bottom of the = pan.
 
We did this in the Lotus Super 7 to keep the junk engines = together. (ford=20 3 main bearing 1300CC industrial engines). Then expanded to 1500CC = with a good=20 7 main crank Then to 1600CC as in the 71 Pinto. Damn fine engine. Base = for=20 Cosworth engines but they were cast in high nickel of course. We had = one in=20 Magnesium. Real good engine. Still available if anyone needs it. =  
 
You can also use the upper end as above and run the dash 12=20 hose through the side of the pan to a brazed in place bulkhead = fitting.=20 The outside end of that fitting would be a dash 16. The pan need only = be deep=20 enough to account for the hose. The outlet for the oil from the pan = then would=20 be a 3" hose to a pot located anywhere below the engine. The dash 16 = hose=20 would run alongside to the bottom of the pot to take oil back to the = pump. So=20 long as the oil level on the dip stick shows close to the stock oil = level the=20 pump works as stock. No problem. 
 
Two more whole generations of oiling are available if you = want a=20 single stage external pump, or, a whole dry-sump system. In that = case=20 the pan is just a flat plate. I can draw them all, If anyone = needs=20 them.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
In a message dated 3/30/2008 11:51:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = keltro@att.net writes:
Lynn,
    Just what I needed !! Thanks........What = would be=20 your thoughts
about a hinged flap on the firewall end of the plate allow = drain=20 back
during normal or low pitch climb out but would close during = high
pitch climb to keep oil out of the front cover (Tractor=20 = installation)?  


=
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date:=20 29/03/2008 5:02 PM
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