X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.143.101] (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with ESMTP id 2824897 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:20:05 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.101; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.ca3.2bb33b6e (30738) for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:19:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:19:11 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Proposed oil pan. To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1206904751" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 36 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1206904751 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The system shown, works at over one "G" of deceleration (45 degrees) plus the nose of the car pitching down a degree or two. The airplane problem is then that this attitude will be maintained for a number of seconds. Even that would be a long time. One "G" would produce a 45 degree oil level line. More likely an evasion maneuver of some kind, in an aircraft, as anything close to 45 degrees would be very uncomfortable, even in a departure situation. If this attitude were to be held for some length of time there would be the problem of oil from the front main bearing not returning to the sump, with a gate of some kind. You could dummy up an engine an clamp on flat plates and a gasket to determine how much oil would be retained ahead of the hole. I suspect that even this is no problem. Other options for oil pan shapes are available. The pan need not be symmetrical. The major volume might be displaced to one side or the other, if space is needed for a radiator or other pieces. It could be displaced to the front or the rear of the engine. The pick up at the engine can be a steel dash 12 male brazed to the tube. (I love braze) a flex dash 12 line is used to connect to another dash 12 Male mated to the pickup fixed with screws in the bottom of the pan. We did this in the Lotus Super 7 to keep the junk engines together. (ford 3 main bearing 1300CC industrial engines). Then expanded to 1500CC with a good 7 main crank Then to 1600CC as in the 71 Pinto. Damn fine engine. Base for Cosworth engines but they were cast in high nickel of course. We had one in Magnesium. Real good engine. Still available if anyone needs it. You can also use the upper end as above and run the dash 12 hose through the side of the pan to a brazed in place bulkhead fitting. The outside end of that fitting would be a dash 16. The pan need only be deep enough to account for the hose. The outlet for the oil from the pan then would be a 3" hose to a pot located anywhere below the engine. The dash 16 hose would run alongside to the bottom of the pot to take oil back to the pump. So long as the oil level on the dip stick shows close to the stock oil level the pump works as stock. No problem. Two more whole generations of oiling are available if you want a single stage external pump, or, a whole dry-sump system. In that case the pan is just a flat plate. I can draw them all, If anyone needs them. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 3/30/2008 11:51:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keltro@att.net writes: Lynn, Just what I needed !! Thanks........What would be your thoughts about a hinged flap on the firewall end of the plate allow drain back during normal or low pitch climb out but would close during high pitch climb to keep oil out of the front cover (Tractor installation)? **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) -------------------------------1206904751 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The system shown, works at over one "G" of deceleration (45 degrees) pl= us=20 the nose of the car pitching down a degree or two. The airplane problem is t= hen=20 that this attitude will be maintained for a number of seconds. Even that wou= ld=20 be a long time. One "G" would produce a 45 degree oil level line. More likel= y an=20 evasion maneuver of some kind, in an aircraft, as anything close to 45 degre= es=20 would be very uncomfortable, even in a departure situation.
 
 If this attitude were to be held for some length of time there wo= uld=20 be the problem of oil from the front main bearing not returning to the sump,= =20 with a gate of some kind. You could dummy up an engine an clamp on flat plat= es=20 and a gasket to determine how much oil would be retained ahead of the hole.=20= I=20 suspect that even this is no problem.
 
Other options for oil pan shapes are available. The pan need not be=20 symmetrical. The major volume might be displaced to one side or the other, i= f=20 space is needed for a radiator or other pieces. It could be displaced to the= =20 front or the rear of the engine.
 
The pick up at the engine can be a steel dash 12 male brazed to the tub= e.=20 (I love braze) a flex dash 12 line is used to connect to another dash 12 Mal= e=20 mated to the pickup fixed with screws in the bottom of the pan.
 
We did this in the Lotus Super 7 to keep the junk engines together. (fo= rd 3=20 main bearing 1300CC industrial engines). Then expanded to 1500CC with a good= 7=20 main crank Then to 1600CC as in the 71 Pinto. Damn fine engine. Base for=20 Cosworth engines but they were cast in high nickel of course. We had one in=20 Magnesium. Real good engine. Still available if anyone needs it.  
 
You can also use the upper end as above and run the dash 12=20 hose through the side of the pan to a brazed in place bulkhead fitting.= The=20 outside end of that fitting would be a dash 16. The pan need only be deep en= ough=20 to account for the hose. The outlet for the oil from the pan then would be a= 3"=20 hose to a pot located anywhere below the engine. The dash 16 hose would run=20 alongside to the bottom of the pot to take oil back to the pump. So long as=20= the=20 oil level on the dip stick shows close to the stock oil level the pump works= as=20 stock. No problem. 
 
Two more whole generations of oiling are available if you want a=20 single stage external pump, or, a whole dry-sump system. In that case=20 the pan is just a flat plate. I can draw them all, If anyone needs= =20 them.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
In a message dated 3/30/2008 11:51:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 keltro@att.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
Lynn,
    Just what I needed !! Thanks........What would be=20= your=20 thoughts
about a hinged flap on the firewall end of the plate allow drain= =20 back
during normal or low pitch climb out but would close during high
pitch climb to keep oil out of the front cover (Tractor=20 installation)?  


<= BR>
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch t= he video on AOL Home.
-------------------------------1206904751--