X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with ESMTP id 2820857 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:59:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.157.35; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c22.3189417b (37037) for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-nd08 (webmail-nd08.sim.aol.com [207.200.67.93]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB027-90ad47ebd21888; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:58:01 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:58:01 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 65.161.241.3 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA5E42D9E71C2B_16F4_5F3_webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35304-STANDARD Received: from 65.161.241.3 by webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com (207.200.67.93) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:58:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA5E42D98C8211-16F4-306@webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8CA5E42D9E71C2B_16F4_5F3_webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jarrett raises a good point. Virtually all bolt manufacture is now done by rolling the threads. Thread rolling is a forging process where the die presses a thread into the shank of the bolt.?In fact there is even a callout for it in the?mechanical engineering world?UNFR or UNCR. This refers to a radius formed at the bottom of the thread valley that makes the resulting bolt much stronger than a cut thread, either single-point (lathe) or die cut. Since virtually all bolts are now made this way the R was dropped as superfluous. The point here is if you have a bolt?on which the threads are a little... bit short. Use washers! Do not use that tap and die set to cut a few more threads on, you have just weakened the bolt by 50%! Bill jepson -----Original Message----- From: H & J Johnson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 8:20 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts One other point which is worth adding. Don't?make your own bolts either.. There is a story [old wives tale maybe] going around up here in Canada about a fella who was a true homebuilder. Made alot of his own bolts from high grade steel.. but cut bolts are a different monkey from rolled bolts.. [even if they are from 4130 or some such]?short version is that he's "headed west" due to a bolt failure. FWIW Jarrett Johnson ? ? > > Chris, > > ?I have to jump in here while I see there are a bunch of other > replies I simply must chime in. > > MOST OF THE CRAP BOLTS SOLD AT THE BOX STORES WOULDN'T QUALIFY FOR > EVEN GRADE 5! > The box stores get mass buys and have > quanties made for them. If you look at the Home Depot free-stock > bolts they even have a custom headstamp on them. This isn't a > grade stamp it's a bolt code so the brain dead cashiers can > quickly figure what to charge for them! Some of the other guys > have noted the metric codes on their description line so everyone > should know what to look for.?Aircraft Spruce and Wicks sell good > quality metric hardware. McMaster-Carr is a big catalog house that > will sell hardware to the consumer, at a slightly inflated price. > There is absolutely no reason to have a hardware failure. None of > us should be using non-AN nuts and bolts for any sagnifigant part. > Come on guys this is not an area to scrimp. > Bill Jepson? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Barber > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 5:48 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts > > > > > Mark, > > ? > > I ama gussen' that Lynn is talking about the Grade 5 and Grade 8 > (usually gold in color, I think)?hardware that is available from > Lowes and HD.? IIRC, one of these is comparable to certain Mil > Spec. It may even be the "lower" Grade 5 which depending on the > application could be used without issue or great concern.? Of > course your mileage and comfort level may vary. > > ? > > That being said, exactly what "standards" are being adhered to and > who is doing the checking is unknown to me just like my aviation > parts.? FWIW. > > ? > > All the best, > > ? > > Chris > > ? > > Christopher Barber > Attorney and Counselor at Law > 5116 Bissonnet, No 418 > Bellaire, Texas 77401 > > Serving the Needs of Senior Texans through > Planning with Purpose > > 281-464-LAWS (5297) > 281-754-4168 Fax > www.TexasAttorney.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On > Behalf Of Mark Steitle > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:04 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts > > > > Lynn, > > Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable using the grade of > hardware typically found at the home stores.? Should be fine for > plugging up a hole here and there, but not for holding the > airplane together.? The bolts I bought at the NAPA store were very > high grade, same?as those from American Bolt.? Not so from Home > Depot.? > > ? > > Mark S. > > ? > > On 3/26/08, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: > > > Lowes has metric bolts nuts and screws. > > ? > > Lynn E. Hanover > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > In a message dated 3/26/2008 12:37:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > msteitle@gmail.com writes: > > > Al, > > I found a pretty good supply of metric bolts at the neighborhood > NAPA store.? They keep the bins behind the counter because people > tend to rummage through them with no reguard for the next guy.? > They have > > > > > > > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. > > > > > > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ----------MB_8CA5E42D9E71C2B_16F4_5F3_webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Jarrett raises a good point. Virtually all bolt manufacture is now done by rolling the threads. Thread rolling is a forging process where the die presses a thread into the shank of the bolt. In fact there is even a callout for it in the mechanical engineering world UNFR or UNCR. This refers to a radius formed at the bottom of the thread valley that makes the resulting bolt much stronger than a cut thread, either single-point (lathe) or die cut. Since virtually all bolts are now made this way the R was dropped as superfluous. The point here is if you have a bolt on which the threads are a little... bit short. Use washers! Do not use that tap and die set to cut a few more threads on, you have just weakened the bolt by 50%!
Bill jepson

-----Original Message-----
From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 8:20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts

One other point which is worth adding. Don't make your own bolts either..
There is a story [old wives tale maybe] going around up here in Canada about a fella who was
a true homebuilder. Made alot of his own bolts from high grade steel.. but cut bolts are a different monkey
from rolled bolts.. [even if they are from 4130 or some such] short version is that he's "headed west" due to a bolt failure.
FWIW
Jarrett Johnson
 
 
>
> Chris,
>
> ?I have to jump in here while I see there are a bunch of other
> replies I simply must chime in.
>
> MOST OF THE CRAP BOLTS SOLD AT THE BOX STORES WOULDN'T QUALIFY FOR
> EVEN GRADE 5!
> <Stepping down from soapbox> The box stores get mass buys and have
> quanties made for them. If you look at the Home Depot free-stock
> bolts they even have a custom headstamp on them. This isn't a
> grade stamp it's a bolt code so the brain dead cashiers can
> quickly figure what to charge for them! Some of the other guys
> have noted the metric codes on their description line so everyone
> should know what to look for.?Aircraft Spruce and Wicks sell good
> quality metric hardware. McMaster-Carr is a big catalog house that
> will sell hardware to the consumer, at a slightly inflated price.
> There is absolutely no reason to have a hardware failure. None of
> us should be using non-AN nuts and bolts for any sagnifigant part.
> Come on guys this is not an area to scrimp.
> Bill Jepson?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Barber <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 5:48 am
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts
>
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> ?
>
> I ama gussen' that Lynn is talking about the Grade 5 and Grade 8
> (usually gold in color, I think)?hardware that is available from
> Lowes and HD.? IIRC, one of these is comparable to certain Mil
> Spec. It may even be the "lower" Grade 5 which depending on the
> application could be used without issue or great concern.? Of
> course your mileage and comfort level may vary.
>
> ?
>
> That being said, exactly what "standards" are being adhered to and
> who is doing the checking is unknown to me just like my aviation
> parts<g>.? FWIW.
>
> ?
>
> All the best,
>
> ?
>
> Chris
>
> ?
>
> Christopher Barber
> Attorney and Counselor at Law
> 5116 Bissonnet, No 418
> Bellaire, Texas 77401
>
> Serving the Needs of Senior Texans through
> Planning with Purpose
>
> 281-464-LAWS (5297)
> 281-754-4168 Fax
> www.TexasAttorney.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Steitle
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:04 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Metric Bolts
>
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable using the grade of
> hardware typically found at the home stores.? Should be fine for
> plugging up a hole here and there, but not for holding the
> airplane together.? The bolts I bought at the NAPA store were very
> high grade, same?as those from American Bolt.? Not so from Home
> Depot.?
>
> ?
>
> Mark S.
>
> ?
>
> On 3/26/08, Lehanover@aol.com <Lehanover@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Lowes has metric bolts nuts and screws.
>
> ?
>
> Lynn E. Hanover
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
> In a message dated 3/26/2008 12:37:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> msteitle@gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Al,
>
> I found a pretty good supply of metric bolts at the neighborhood
> NAPA store.? They keep the bins behind the counter because people
> tend to rummage through them with no reguard for the next guy.?
> They have
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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