Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #41939
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Various Possible solutions to coolant in housing
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:45:26 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Chris,
Without inspecting the housings myself (not that I profess to be an expert here) I don't know what to suggest you do.  When rebuilding my 20B, I used the Creavey TES o-rings and haven't had any problems with leakage in 50+ hours.  And I run a 25# radiator cap.  I used Hylomar in the o-ring grooves and on all mating surfaces during assembly.  Bottom line is that you won't know for sure until you put the engine together, fill it with coolant, and pressure test it. 

In fact, as I see it, without spending the $1K up front, this is probably the shortest path to a decision.  Clean everything up, reassemble the engine using Hylomar on mating surfaces and on o-rings, torque it all down (per the manual) and then pressure test it before installing the pan and front cover, etc.  If it doesn't leak, then you can do the final assembly and install the engine back in the airframe.  If it does leak, you've only lost a couple hours of your time.

Have you priced the housings through Mears Mazda?  Bob has generously offered us rotary fliers a good discount on parts.  (He's on this list.)

Mark S.

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Christopher Barber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
I have been inspecting and re-inspecting the plates (front, center and rear) and the housing over the last few days...over and over with trusted second set of eyes helping with the process.  I have taken a straight edge to the plates and with a .0015 feeler gage (the smallest I could find...the spec is 0016 IIRC ) could not get it to even think about going under the straight edge.  The plates seem solid, straight and in damn good shape. 
 
I have taken a dental pick and "ticked" it around the oil seal grooves and it seems solid all around.  However, after viewing the Mazdatrix website, it shows where the side of the O-ring groves may give way.  They state it is hard to diagnose but can be a way coolant gets into the combustion chamber (http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/sidehsgs.htm photo's 4 and 5). They had to use very high pressure over an extended period to make the bad area actually VISIBLY fail.  IS THERE  A WAY to determine if these groove side walls are solid without the high pressure, long term pressure test process....which is beyond my ability?  I hate the idea of putting these back together and continue to have a problem......I also hate the idea of the about $400.00 ish each for new plates :-(  I really thing the side plates are ok IF these grooves are good.  Any ideas?
 
Next, when we have meticulously inspected the housings, we seem to see a couple of EXTREMELY slight irregularities around the edge where the water seal would lay between it and the side seals.  My buddy...a VERY trusted resource, feels this could be enough to cause a problem. Also, when I broke out the digital calipers I measured several places around the housings and it seems the thickness around the diameter I am getting is reading slightly out of spec for differences in thickness around the housings.
 
Is it proper or even possible to take these to a machine shop and have them machined smooth and flat?  Or is it better to just suck it up and buy new housings?  I am about a "wild hair" away from just giving in and buying two new housing just to get going again and end all question of them being a future problem....at least for the current reasons.  I hate the idea of throwing money at something that may be perfectly fine (after all I am not the government) What are y'all's thoughts?
 
As to the O-rings that came out of the engine for the inner rings there does seem to be some roughness along a couple of areas on the O-rings.  The areas are about 1.5 inches long, give are take, and seem to be on a couple of the rings and in about the same area on the various plates.  This would seem to be indicative to over heating......Yes, No....?????
 
Also, the price for new housings from Pineapple Racing (558.00) does not seem too bad (Mazdatrix are 571.78 w/ cash discount).  One of the "features" Pineapple Racing promotes on their site is that they have "machined spark plug holes" so as to accept alternative plugs.  What the heck is this?  I hope to get a chance to call them on the morrow but what say Ye?
 
I tend to kick around the various ideas before I decide, but as a rule do not knee jerk react to things even though it may seem this way.  I do not want to drop a grand+ for new housings, but that may be inevitable.  More so, I don't want to toss an additional $1400 on new side plates......however, I also want some piece of mind that at least these issues are addressed.
 
Will love to get your opinions.  TIA.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
Velocity SE
Houston

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