X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2790957 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:45:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.24; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from OMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.19]) by QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0oZT1Z0050QuhwU520DB00; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:44:31 +0000 Received: from ChristopherNB ([98.200.107.125]) by OMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0slE1Z0042iMkLq3N00000; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:45:16 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=NdCf7IunyJcA:10 a=b71qmRWJAAAA:8 a=L8qO1KqW9WiNPOLy1QcA:9 a=Kdasuq2jrqb9AhHSIFMA:7 a=cNSln_mrYR4pKyvN_Hh9bHq-X9QA:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 a=dbwXrHmZLYzyEZPeY9kA:9 a=HBvRHXbyrlNDgUROPoIA:7 a=8mY7hAtGl17oPJI191HucB_niZgA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <17C306A38CA3425393BCA8347213B79E@ChristopherNB> From: "Christopher Barber" To: "FlyRotary aircraft" Subject: Various Possible solutions to coolant in housing Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:45:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08A2_01C88564.4BD39380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_08A2_01C88564.4BD39380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been inspecting and re-inspecting the plates (front, center and = rear) and the housing over the last few days...over and over with = trusted second set of eyes helping with the process. I have taken a = straight edge to the plates and with a .0015 feeler gage (the smallest I = could find...the spec is 0016 IIRC ) could not get it to even think = about going under the straight edge. The plates seem solid, straight = and in damn good shape. =20 I have taken a dental pick and "ticked" it around the oil seal grooves = and it seems solid all around. However, after viewing the Mazdatrix = website, it shows where the side of the O-ring groves may give way. = They state it is hard to diagnose but can be a way coolant gets into the = combustion chamber (http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/sidehsgs.htm photo's 4 = and 5). They had to use very high pressure over an extended period to = make the bad area actually VISIBLY fail. IS THERE A WAY to determine = if these groove side walls are solid without the high pressure, long = term pressure test process....which is beyond my ability? I hate the = idea of putting these back together and continue to have a = problem......I also hate the idea of the about $400.00 ish each for new = plates :-( I really thing the side plates are ok IF these grooves are = good. Any ideas? Next, when we have meticulously inspected the housings, we seem to see a = couple of EXTREMELY slight irregularities around the edge where the = water seal would lay between it and the side seals. My buddy...a VERY = trusted resource, feels this could be enough to cause a problem. Also, = when I broke out the digital calipers I measured several places around = the housings and it seems the thickness around the diameter I am getting = is reading slightly out of spec for differences in thickness around the = housings. Is it proper or even possible to take these to a machine shop and have = them machined smooth and flat? Or is it better to just suck it up and = buy new housings? I am about a "wild hair" away from just giving in and = buying two new housing just to get going again and end all question of = them being a future problem....at least for the current reasons. I hate = the idea of throwing money at something that may be perfectly fine = (after all I am not the government) What are y'all's thoughts? As to the O-rings that came out of the engine for the inner rings there = does seem to be some roughness along a couple of areas on the O-rings. = The areas are about 1.5 inches long, give are take, and seem to be on a = couple of the rings and in about the same area on the various plates. = This would seem to be indicative to over heating......Yes, No....????? Also, the price for new housings from Pineapple Racing (558.00) does not = seem too bad (Mazdatrix are 571.78 w/ cash discount). One of the = "features" Pineapple Racing promotes on their site is that they have = "machined spark plug holes" so as to accept alternative plugs. What the = heck is this? I hope to get a chance to call them on the morrow but = what say Ye? I tend to kick around the various ideas before I decide, but as a rule = do not knee jerk react to things even though it may seem this way. I do = not want to drop a grand+ for new housings, but that may be inevitable. = More so, I don't want to toss an additional $1400 on new side = plates......however, I also want some piece of mind that at least these = issues are addressed. Will love to get your opinions. TIA. All the best, Chris Velocity SE Houston ------=_NextPart_000_08A2_01C88564.4BD39380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been inspecting and = re-inspecting the plates=20 (front, center and rear) and the housing over the last few days...over = and over=20 with trusted second set of eyes helping with the process.  I have = taken a=20 straight edge to the plates and with a .0015 feeler gage (the = smallest I=20 could find...the spec is 0016 IIRC ) could not get it to even = think=20 about going under the straight edge.  The plates seem solid, = straight and=20 in damn good shape. 
 
I have taken a dental pick and "ticked" = it around=20 the oil seal grooves and it seems solid all around.  However, = after=20 viewing the Mazdatrix website, it shows where the side of the O-ring = groves may=20 give way.  They state it is hard to diagnose but can be a way = coolant gets=20 into the combustion chamber (http://www.mazdatrix.c= om/faq/sidehsgs.htm photo's=20 4 and 5). They had to use very high pressure over an extended period to = make the=20 bad area actually VISIBLY fail.  IS THERE  A WAY to determine = if these=20 groove side walls are solid without the high pressure, long term = pressure=20 test process....which is beyond my ability?  I hate the idea = of=20 putting these back together and continue to have a problem......I also = hate the=20 idea of the about $400.00 ish each for new plates :-(  I = really thing=20 the side plates are ok IF these grooves are good.  Any = ideas?
 
Next, when we have meticulously = inspected the=20 housings, we seem to see a couple of EXTREMELY slight irregularities = around the=20 edge where the water seal would lay between it and the side seals.  = My=20 buddy...a VERY trusted resource, feels this could be enough to cause a = problem.=20 Also, when I broke out the digital calipers I measured several places = around the=20 housings and it seems the thickness around the diameter I am getting is = reading=20 slightly out of spec for differences in thickness around the=20 housings.
 
Is it proper or even possible to take = these to a=20 machine shop and have them machined smooth and flat?  Or is it = better to=20 just suck it up and buy new housings?  I am about a "wild hair" = away from=20 just giving in and buying two new housing just to get going again and = end all=20 question of them being a future problem....at least for the current=20 reasons.  I hate the idea of throwing money at something that may = be=20 perfectly fine (after all I am not the government) What are y'all's=20 thoughts?
 
As to the O-rings that came out of the = engine for=20 the inner rings there does seem to be some roughness along a couple of = areas on=20 the O-rings.  The areas are about 1.5 inches long, give are take, = and seem=20 to be on a couple of the rings and in about the same area on the various = plates.  This would seem to be indicative to over heating......Yes, = No....?????
 
Also, the price for new = housings from=20 Pineapple Racing (558.00) does not seem too bad (Mazdatrix are = 571.78 w/=20 cash discount).  One of the "features" Pineapple = Racing promotes=20 on their site is that they have "machined spark plug holes" so as to = accept=20 alternative plugs.  What the heck is this?  I hope to get a = chance to=20 call them on the morrow but what say Ye?
 
I tend to kick around the various ideas = before I=20 decide, but as a rule do not knee jerk react to things even though it = may seem=20 this way.  I do not want to drop a grand+ for new housings, but = that may be=20 inevitable.  More so, I don't want to toss an additional $1400 on = new side=20 plates......however, I also want some piece of mind that at least these = issues=20 are addressed.
 
Will love to get your opinions. =20 TIA.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
Velocity SE
Houston
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