X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.192] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPS id 2758788 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:32:22 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.192; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d211-31-241-52.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.241.52]) by mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m1QLVV9v005338 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:31:33 +1100 Message-ID: <005601c878be$f79cd8f0$34f11fd3@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fwd: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:31:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C87912.C7F67850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0657-0, 12/12/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C87912.C7F67850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I remember that truss style mount now, I think it was the model that = the current brace that Jerry's doing for builders. I might say Jerry is = doing a great job with engine frames etc. but we don't see him on this = site anymore, I guess he's pretty busy. As much as I like the truss design, mine idea is (in my opinion) a = more simplified approach and all parts are integral to the pan.. The = only part that isn't integral is the bolt on engine mounts and this is = because different installations require different widths. The integral pan mount design can be done several ways and all would = be just as good as the rest. The truss is well designed and very strong and light, it may be some = of that design might be needed to be transferred in the integral pan = design - henceforth known as the IPD. George ( down under) Oops, forgot the Jpeg! -----Original Message----- From: wrjjrs@aol.com To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 8:24 am Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount George, Et All The Questair Venture used a very slick arangement with a tubular front = mount that passed through the front of the original pan. Later versions = used a truss that slipped around the pan. The truss was still mounted = using the pan bolts though. This system was/is very effective and is = still used by the Ventures flying at Reno in the Sport class. Paul Lamar = has mentioned frequently that the simple reat mount can be used to = "tune" the down thrust angle for best performance. Another plus is that = since the truss used in the later models mounts on the outside, only one = gasket surface is needed instead of the two surfaces caused by the = aluminum plate method. If you can stop yourself from using the thick = plate method, (heavy, leak prone), at least modify the set up to work = with the proper form, using 3 mounts. I attached a jpeg of what it = should sort of look like. The wide part towards the front of the plane = and the single mount towards the firewall. The rear mount hardly holds = ything so a single mount will do. Bill Jepson =20 -----Original Message----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 2:30 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount Greg and others, After running my ideas past Bill Jepson ( engineer) he tells me that = this have been done before and is a very good engine mount. The Questair = Venture used this on a Lycoming engine. Well I may not have been the first, but still, I get there. The bottom = line the idea is sound and just as important, a simple solution. George (down under)=20 Hi George, I live in Brisbane ( south side of the river). I've = already started down this route so I'll see where it takes me. I = haven't any machining ability so this is the easiest way, I think. Got any drawings of the reinforced oil pan? That sounds = interesting. Regards Greg Greg, Your correct, postage to the US and vice versa is very expensive. = I sent a Bellhousing to the states and it cost $100. Where are you located? I have designed a Bellhousing with integral engine mount pads = (very strong). You can have one at cost and do your own machining if you = wish OR you could use a new design of mine which is a reinforced oil pan = come engine mount. This incorporates the flatplate type design with oil = pan modifications - currently in use. This all presuppose you have the 'where with all' to fabricate or = machine. I can organize the fabrication of the oil pan out of chrome = molly (at cost). This the way I will go for my single, if you wish to be involved = I'm in Brisbane. George (down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Klepeis=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount Dear Greg I understand what you are saying about the shipping. Over = here if you want to have a c&c mach shop do just one plate the set up = charges would knock your socks off. I have a shop that has the program = already made up so the price for 20 units is more affordable. send me = some pic when you get done. Have a look at my web site techwelding.com. = thanks = Regards = Ed Klepeis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:56 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount I'm in Australia. As far as I know no one as posted a drawing = of the plate so I thought I might as well. I don't see why it wouldn't = be the same for every airframe. What I have to do is print a full scale = drawing and check it against my sump and I'll post any changes. Regards Greg Dear Greg It looks exactly like the ones I have but without Dim = I can't say for sure.Where are you located? Good luck. = Regards = Ed Klepeis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 engine mount Thanks Ed, but freight would cost more than I can make the = thing for I'd expect. I'm not exactly local. Does my drawing look = correct compared to the original. It's cut out for Barry 22002-12 = mounts. Regards Greg Dear Greg If interested I have mount plates all machined = up ready to go. = Regards = Ed Klepeis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Starting RV8 engine mount Hi, I started the engine mount for my RV8 with Renesis = engine today. Copying the basic design of the CCI mount for which I was = ripped off, I bought some Al plate 0.5" thick to fit between sump and = engine and made a CAD drawing so the water jet cutters can finish it = off. I've attached the drawing for anyone interested. I haven't had it = plotted to full size scale yet so there may be some errors. With some of the excess Al I'll make a spacer to fit = between the oil pickup and engine so the pickup is lowered by the same = amount as the plate. The oil pickup uses an O ring for a seal so I'll = get the spacer machined to take an O ring as well. The drawing shows 2 = spacers I thought I may as well have a spare since it's just scrap = material. Regards Greg -------------------------------------------------------------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: = 22/02/2008 6:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: = 22/02/2008 6:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar for your browser.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar for your browser.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: = 25/02/2008 8:45 PM ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C87912.C7F67850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Bill,
I remember that truss style mount now, = I think=20 it was the model that the current brace that Jerry's doing for = builders. I=20 might say Jerry is doing a great job with engine frames etc. but we = don't see=20 him on this site anymore, I guess he's pretty busy.
 
As much as I like the truss design, = mine idea is=20 (in my opinion) a more simplified approach and all parts are integral = to the=20 pan.. The only part that isn't integral is the bolt on engine mounts = and this=20 is because different  installations require different = widths.
 
The integral pan mount design can be = done=20 several ways and all would be just as good as the rest.
 
The truss is well designed and very = strong and=20 light, it may be some of that design might be needed to be transferred = in the=20 integral pan design - henceforth known as the IPD.
George ( down under)
 
 
Oops, forgot the=20 Jpeg!

-----Original Message-----
From: wrjjrs@aol.com
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
Sent:=20 Tue, 26 Feb 2008 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 = engine=20 mount

George, Et All
The Questair Venture used a very slick arangement with a tubular = front=20 mount that passed through the front of the original = pan. Later=20 versions used a truss that slipped around the pan. The truss was still = mounted=20 using the pan bolts though. This system was/is very effective and is = still=20 used by the Ventures flying at Reno in the Sport class. Paul = Lamar has=20 mentioned frequently that the simple reat mount can be used to = "tune" the=20 down thrust angle for best performance. Another plus is = that since the=20 truss used in the later models mounts on the outside, only one gasket = surface=20 is needed instead of the two surfaces caused by the aluminum plate=20 method. If you can stop yourself from using the thick plate = method,=20 (heavy, leak prone), at least modify the set up to work with the = proper form,=20 using 3 mounts. I attached a jpeg of what it should sort of look = like.=20 The wide part towards the front of the plane and the single mount = towards the=20 firewall. The rear mount hardly holds ything so a single mount = will=20 do.
Bill Jepson  


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: George Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Mon, 25 Feb 2008 2:30 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Starting RV8 = engine=20 mount

Greg and others,
After running my ideas past Bill = Jepson (=20 engineer) he tells me that this have been done before and is = a very=20 good engine mount. The Questair Venture used this on a Lycoming=20 engine.
Well I may not have been the first, = but still, I=20 get there. The bottom line the idea is sound and just as important,=20 a simple solution.
George (down = under) 
Hi George,  I live in Brisbane = ( south=20 side of the river).  I've already started down this route so = I'll see=20 where it takes me.  I haven't any machining ability so this is = the=20 easiest way, I think.
 
Got any drawings of the reinforced = oil=20 pan?  That sounds interesting.
 
Regards Greg

Greg,
Your correct, postage to the US = and vice=20 versa is very expensive. I sent a Bellhousing to the states and it = cost=20 $100.
Where are you = located?
I have designed a Bellhousing = with integral=20 engine mount pads (very strong). You can have one at cost and do = your own=20 machining if you wish OR you could use a new design of mine which = is a=20 reinforced oil pan come engine mount. This incorporates the = flatplate type=20 design with oil pan modifications - currently in use.
This all presuppose you have the = 'where with=20 all' to fabricate or machine. I can organize the fabrication of = the oil=20 pan out of chrome molly (at cost).
 
This the way I will go for my = single, if=20 you wish to be involved I'm in Brisbane.
George (down under)
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Ed Klepeis
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, February = 23, 2008=20 3:42 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Starting=20 RV8 engine mount

Dear Greg
       I=20 understand what you are saying about the shipping. Over here if = you want=20 to have a c&c mach shop do just one plate the set up charges = would  knock your socks off. I have a shop that has the = program=20 already made up  so the price for 20 units is more = affordable. send=20 me some pic when you get done. Have a look at my web site=20 techwelding.com. thanks
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =    =20 Regards
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            = =20 Ed Klepeis
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Greg
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, February = 22, 2008=20 10:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Starting=20 RV8 engine mount

I'm in Australia.  As = far as I know=20 no one as posted a drawing of the plate so I thought I might = as=20 well.  I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for = every=20 airframe.  What I have to do is print a full scale = drawing and=20 check it against my sump and I'll post any = changes.
Regards
Greg

Dear Greg
      It looks=20 exactly like the ones I have but without Dim I can't say for = sure.Where are you located? Good luck.
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =      =20 Regards
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            = =20 Ed Klepeis
 
----- Original Message = -----
From:=20 Greg=20
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, = February 22,=20 2008 8:26 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Starting RV8 engine mount

Thanks Ed, but = freight would=20 cost more than I can make the thing for I'd expect.  = I'm not=20 exactly local.  Does my drawing look correct = compared to=20 the original.  It's cut out for Barry 22002-12=20 mounts.
 
Regards Greg
 

Dear Greg
         If=20 interested I have mount plates all machined up ready to=20 go.
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;  =20 Regards
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;  =20 Ed Klepeis
----- Original Message = -----=20
From:=20 Greg
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, = February=20 22, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Starting RV8 engine mount

Hi, I started the = engine mount=20 for my RV8 with Renesis engine today. Copying the = basic design=20 of the CCI mount for which I was ripped = off, I=20 bought some Al plate 0.5" thick to fit between sump = and engine=20 and made a CAD drawing so the water jet cutters can = finish it=20 off.  I've attached the drawing for anyone=20 interested.  I haven't had it plotted to full = size scale=20 yet so there may be some errors.
 
With some of the = excess Al I'll=20 make a spacer to fit between the oil pickup and engine = so the=20 pickup is lowered by the same amount as the = plate. The=20 oil pickup uses an O ring for a seal so I'll get the = spacer=20 machined to take an O ring as well.  The drawing = shows 2=20 spacers I thought I may as well have a spare since = it's just=20 scrap material.
 
Regards = Greg
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked = by AVG=20 Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: = 269.20.9/1294 -=20 Release Date: 22/02/2008 6:39 = PM
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by = AVG Free=20 Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - = Release=20 Date: 22/02/2008 6:39 PM

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free = Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - = Release Date:=20 25/02/2008 8:45 PM
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