X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail09.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.190] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.11) with ESMTPS id 2279772 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:34:21 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.190; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d198-142-112-72.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [198.142.112.72]) by mail09.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l7N7XZ8N008312 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:33:36 +1000 Message-ID: <003d01c7e557$ed43afa0$48708ec6@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine mounts Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:33:39 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C7E5AB.BE0ADDE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0657-0, 12/12/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C7E5AB.BE0ADDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill and Lynn. I did have an idea for a 2 piece plate sump, a while back which used a = channel type sump side, in steel, with brackets welded to it. It would = be very rigid the top of the channel ( flange would be the same as the = sump flange, perhaps thicker material with a mirrored flange at the = bottom ( hence channel). Because this channel with integral mounts = would be so rigid, it would only require a flat or shaped al bottom = plate to act as the sump bottom. There could be baffles on the inside that act as stiffeners as well. I = envisaged channel going from one side to the other at mount points or = criss-crossed internally or both. This would be very strong indeed and you could still take off the bottom = plate, if you wanted to. George ( down under) George, I really liked your bellhousing! I believe with a guy like = Larry cutting the form CNC yours would be the "way to go!" With a = CNC'ed form I don't even think it would weigh more than a pound more. I = like it because with simple add ons you could fit almost anything.Much = more flexible. That is what you and Butch were after anyway right? An = aside, you might look at the way that Mistral is going with the 20B = based engine. The bellhousing is tapped and the bed mount is attached in = the same position as your pads! The 2 rotor could use the lightest setup = possible. The 3 rotor is light enough that a good mount a few pounds = heavier wouldn't make any difference to me at all. I think you were = going the right direction. Bill Jepson (But then you knew that already didn't you George?) That's why I designed a bellhousing ( with Butch) with side pads for = engine mounts. George (down under) Robert, Funny you should ask. I have been working on this problem for a = while. Those devils at Mazda seem to have conspired to make the Renesis = very hard to design a mount for. They took away the point for a mount on = top of the engine. They moved the engine mount bolts all over the place = and put a lot of exhaust and plumbing in the way . It was as if they sat = down and said....how can we make this engine really really hard to = instal in an airplane. I would have to agree with Lynn on this one. I am going to use the = plate option. I will be modifying it so that it is lower profile. The = plate will be the size of the engine pan and the bolts will go in from = the side. The standard conical mounts will be on the sides as close to = the engine as I can get them. Imagine a hybrid between a bed mount and a = P51 beam mount. It is a difficult problem if you have a tight cowl. Don't rely on the engine mount to help you if you loose a prop = blade!!=20 Put at least a 3/16 safety cable on the engine. =20 There are some design suggestions here: Monty -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release Date: = 22/08/2007 6:51 PM ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C7E5AB.BE0ADDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill and Lynn.
 I did have an idea for a 2 piece plate sump, a while back = which used=20 a channel type sump side, in steel, with brackets welded to it. It would = be very=20 rigid the top of the channel ( flange would be the same as the sump = flange,=20 perhaps thicker material with a mirrored flange at the bottom ( hence=20 channel).  Because this channel with integral mounts would be so = rigid, it=20 would only require a flat or shaped al bottom plate to act as the sump=20 bottom.
There could be baffles on the inside that act as stiffeners as = well. I=20 envisaged channel going from one side to the other at mount points = or=20 criss-crossed internally or both.
This would be very strong indeed and you could still take off the = bottom=20 plate, if you wanted to.
George ( down under)
George, I really liked your bellhousing! I believe with a guy = like Larry=20 cutting the form CNC yours would be the "way to go!"  With a = CNC'ed form=20 I don't even think it would weigh more than a pound more. I like it = because=20 with simple add ons you could fit almost anything.Much more flexible. = That is=20 what you and Butch were after anyway right?  An aside, you might = look at=20 the way that Mistral is going with the 20B based engine. The = bellhousing is=20 tapped and the bed mount is attached in the same position as your = pads! The 2=20 rotor could use the lightest setup possible. The 3 rotor is light = enough that=20 a good mount a few pounds heavier wouldn't make any difference to me = at all. I=20 think you were going the right direction.
 
Bill Jepson (But then you knew that already didn't you = George?)
 
That's why I designed a bellhousing = ( with=20 Butch) with side pads for engine mounts.
George (down under)
Robert,
 
Funny you should ask. I have been = working on=20 this problem for a while. Those devils at Mazda seem to have=20 conspired to make the Renesis very hard to design a mount for. = They took=20 away the point for a mount on top of the engine. They moved the = engine=20 mount bolts all over the place and put a lot of exhaust and = plumbing=20 in the way . It was as if they sat down and said....how can we = make this=20 engine really really hard to instal in an airplane.
 
I would have to agree with Lynn = on this one.=20 I am going to use the plate option. I will be modifying it so = that it=20 is lower profile. The plate will be the size of the engine pan and = the=20 bolts will go in from the side. The standard conical mounts will = be on the=20 sides as close to the engine as I can get them. Imagine a hybrid = between a=20 bed mount and a P51 beam mount.
 
It is a difficult problem if = you have a=20 tight cowl.
 
Don't rely on the engine mount to = help you if=20 you loose a prop blade!!
 
Put at least a 3/16 safety = cable on the=20 engine.  
 
There are some design suggestions = here:
 
Monty
 



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Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/967 - Release = Date:=20 22/08/2007 6:51 PM
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