X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.238] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.11) with ESMTP id 2222701 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:10:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.162.238; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id n29so1026786nzf for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=QGmyHHfc9W2pzTHWjfEH7YDUuxmhJ6udkUcWWoWSgAoq3T9lUK/fbWaVbx5u1F83jgkY5iO0+nBeOnEOwn9JA6jYKXSwBGs12FrsiF5V9vly1a105KxAQbImQfReRhYRTaBQkzQ3uqaINVqPw96TO73/Yo+dLWf+cBbtv0JEtM8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=gA8qB6ltgNMA2okAOa2bgmnosFcilUFxaOzQd9dXwIwpJC3Ci5u3jr/UqY+s4nb67T5L+uFCKr2hkNJLX2AHAnO/+NLGLj7ShYSZISj4BOgia3/hXpd2BQI4fohcN9CANdKyYIymRZrx0ekLV/tCRejBGb4wcM8uNNMc15x+xXQ= Received: by 10.142.156.2 with SMTP id d2mr280180wfe.1185901785967; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.115.16 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0707311009k733cebd5v9b8e989d95564ec3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:45 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50665_14306736.1185901785840" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2be3a251cf65d5de ------=_Part_50665_14306736.1185901785840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chris, You are getting good advice on troubleshooting the problem. Not sure you are following the logic in some of them though. I think I suggested this already but here it is if not. There are three possibilities that need to be eliminated. The answer to finding problems is always follow logical trouble shooting steps. Frustration can usually be eliminated. The steps may not be fun but they will give answers. The possibilities are: 1. Wiring problem (probably not given the measures you have already taken but still needs to be verified) 2. Noise problem or unidentified sensitivity to long cable lengths. 3. The EM2 is not working right. You have mostly done steps for #1 I think. BUT, just re-terminating the lines does NOT eliminate the possibility of shorts (to ground) in the cable run. Check for that as well. #2 is trickier. At this point you need to go to the trouble of the next step. Disconnect the switches from the EM2 *AT THE EM2 END OF THE CABLE *. This will mean either removing those pins from the EM2 connector or cutting the wires. I suggest doing this on the UP switch and ABORT switch which are the two lines that must be pulled low in order to invoke calibration mode. If the problem goes away, it means there is a short to ground on one or more of the switch lines or the lines are picking up noise in the cable run. Now find out which is the case. With the lines to these 2 switches still cut (at the EM2 connector) , press the down switch to verify that you can still scroll through the screens. If you can, the problem has been isolated to either shorts or noise. Use an ohm meter to test for shorts. Now hook one line at a time back up. Start with Abort line. Test for normal function on the abort switch (press it and see the Quick Check screen for fuel pressure, etc). Then hook up the UP line and see if trouble is back. If so, and there were no shorted lines) the problem is likely to be noise. This would surprise me since it is happening without the engine running but anything is possible. If it is noise, there are many possible fixes. Call me to discuss them. If the problem is still there with switch lines cut, the EM2 is dead-bang BAD. Send it back for repair if so. There is also the possibility that there are shorts inside the connector housing on the switch connector but that would be a very long shot. One more test I just thought of. Prior to cutting any wires. Turn the EM2 power on and measure the voltage at all 4 EM2 Mode switches. They should be at 5 volts when not pushed and 0 volts when pushed. Make sure there are no interaction between switches. i.e., Pushing ABORT should not affect voltage on UP, . Happy Troubleshooting, Tracy On 7/31/07, Michael LaFleur wrote: > > Since it's doing it all the time and not just when engine running, I'd > think the problem is not a noise issue. Although you still could have one > with engine running. > > Disconnect the switches and if the unit is still in calibration mode, it > points to the unit as the source of the problem. > > Mike LaFleur > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Christopher Barber > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 11:17:26 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase > > All the time. > > It seems as if a switch is sticking, but I have replaced all the switches, > re-ran the wires an d-sub pins etc. Buly mentioned a filter.....I donno. I > am not that well versed on electronics, but becoming more educated everday. > I am very suspect of absolutes, but I am confident that my connections are > good. I do not know of any other way to make them more "proper". Again, it > was working fine, then, after an engine run....where I was just looking at > the display during the run, I shut down, checked the engine, came back to > the cabin and it was in calibration mode (heck, maybe it is not calibration > mode, but that is what is seems to be....also, my Coolant Temperature in the > main screen, for the second it displays, reads "0". I may have > inadvertantly set it to this trying to clear the calibration mode. The > buttons seem to be MOSTLY working other than that, however, since it keeps > wanting to set to the first calibration screen, it is difficult to page to > other pages, even though it will. Also, as I mentioned in my post from last > week on this topic, the display digits are kinda flashing....not all of > 'em....like maybe the last few digits of the bottom line, sorta like it is > trying to change to the next screen so I see the display from that screen > for a minute and it then flashes back ot the word "temperature" > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael LaFleur > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:12 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase > > > Is this all the time, or only when the engine is running? > > Use your voltmeter and probe the wires while you press the button. Take > notes. > > Mike LaFleur > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Christopher Barber > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:19:51 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase > > David, > > I am thrilled to hear of your purchase. I was saddened by Buly's choice, > but more power to him...gotta admit that a few days recently tracking down > grimlins gets my mind to understand his choice.....understand, even if not > agree. For me it is just the frustration of the moment, which at times is > part of the fun. > > Of course, today, as I re-terminated all my wire runs (and then verified > continuity of each line) for everything connected to the ECU and EM2, fun > was the last word I was shouting out. Dang it.......I am still getting the > EM2 stuck in calibration mode. DOH! The engine did start right up though > after all the re-terminations, but the EM display continues to stay in > calibration mode (Select Channel 0; on the first line and Coolant > Temperature on the second line), when I press the button to clea it it > flashes to the main screen for about a second and goes back to the > calibration mode. So, a lot a effort but no forward progress. Opps, sorry, > I degress to my current frustration > > I guess I will try to give Tracy a call in the morning...I think it is a > tech support day or is Tracy out of town again? Man, my timing sucks. Oh > well. On with the build. > > All the best, > > Chris > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > ------=_Part_50665_14306736.1185901785840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Chris,
You are getting good advice on troubleshooting the problem.
 
Not sure you are following the logic in some of them though.  I t= hink I suggested this already but here it is if not.
 
There are three possibilities that need to be eliminated.  T= he answer to finding problems is always follow logical trouble shootin= g steps.  Frustration can usually be eliminated.  The steps = may not be fun but they will give answers.
 
The possibilities are:
 
1.  Wiring problem (probably not given the measures you have alre= ady taken but still needs to be verified)
 
2.  Noise problem or unidentified sensitivity to long cable lengt= hs.
 
3.  The EM2 is not working right.
 
You have mostly done steps for #1 I think.  BUT, just re-ter= minating the lines does NOT eliminate the possibility of shorts (to ground)= in the cable run.   Check for that as well.
 
#2 is trickier.  At this point you need to go to the trouble of t= he next step.  Disconnect the switches from the EM2  *AT THE EM2 = END OF THE CABLE *.  This will mean either removing those pins from th= e EM2 connector or cutting the wires.   I suggest doing this on t= he UP switch and ABORT switch which are the two lines that must be pulled l= ow in order to invoke calibration mode. =20
 
If the problem goes away, it means there is a short to ground on one o= r more of the switch lines or the lines are picking up noise in the cable r= un.  Now find out which is the case.
 
 With the lines to these 2 switches still cut (at the EM2 connect= or) , press the down switch to verify that you can still scroll through the= screens.  If you can, the problem has been isolated to either shorts = or noise.   Use an ohm meter to test for shorts. Now hook on= e line at a time back up.  Start with Abort line.  Test for norma= l function on the abort switch (press it and see the Quick Check screen for= fuel pressure, etc).
Then hook up the UP line and see if trouble is back.  If so, and = there were no shorted lines) the problem is likely to be noise.  This = would surprise me since it is happening without the engine running but anyt= hing is possible.
 
If it is noise, there are many possible fixes.  Call me to discus= s them.
 
If the problem is still there with switch lines cut,  the EM2 is = dead-bang BAD.  Send it back for repair if so.  There is also the= possibility that there are shorts inside the connector housing on the swit= ch connector but that would be a very long shot.
 
One more test I just thought of.  Prior to cutting any wires.&nbs= p; Turn the EM2 power on and measure the voltage at all 4 EM2 Mode switches= .  They should be at 5 volts when not pushed and 0 volts when pushed.&= nbsp; Make sure there are no interaction between switches. =20 i.e., Pushing ABORT should not affect voltage on UP,  .
 
Happy Troubleshooting,
Tracy
 


 
On 7/31/07, = Michael LaFleur <mike.= lafleur@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
= Since it's doing it all the time and not just when engine running, I= 9;d think the problem is not a noise issue. Although you still could have o= ne with engine running.

Disconnect the switches and if the unit is still in calibration mod= e, it points to the unit as the source of the problem.

Mike LaFleur<= br>
----- Original Message ----
From: Christopher B= arber < CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 11:17:26 AM
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase
All the time. 
 
It seems as if a switch is sticking, b= ut I have replaced all the switches, re-ran the wires an d-sub pins etc.&nb= sp; Buly mentioned a filter.....I donno.  I am not that well versed on= electronics, but becoming more educated everday.  I am very suspect o= f absolutes, but I am confident that my connections are good.  I do no= t know of any other way to make them more "proper".  Again, = it was working fine, then, after an engine run....where I was just looking = at the display during the run, I shut down, checked the engine, came back t= o the cabin and it was in calibration mode (heck, maybe it is not calibrati= on mode, but that is what is seems to be....also, my Coolant Temperature in= the main screen, for the second it displays, reads "0".  I = may have inadvertantly set it to this trying to clear the calibration mode.=   The buttons seem to be MOSTLY working other than that, however, sinc= e it keeps wanting to set to the first calibration screen, it is difficult = to page to other pages, even though it will.  Also, as I mentioned in = my post from last week on this topic, the display digits are kinda flashing= ....not all of 'em....like maybe the last few digits of the bottom line= , sorta like it is trying to change to the next screen so I see the display= from that screen for a minute and it then flashes back ot the word "t= emperature"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:12 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, nice purchase

 
= Is this all the time, or only when the engine is running?=

Use your voltmeter and probe the wires while you press the button. = Take notes.

Mike LaFleur
----- Original Message ----
From: Christopher B= arber < CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net >
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:19:51 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Unsubscribe...now, n= ice purchase
David,
 
I am thrilled to hear of your purchase.  I w= as saddened by Buly's choice, but more power to him...gotta admit that = a few days recently tracking down grimlins gets my mind to understand his c= hoice.....understand, even if not agree.  For me it is just the f= rustration of the moment, which at times is part of the fun. =20
 
Of course, today, as I re-termi= nated all my wire runs (and then verified continuity of each line) for= everything connected to the  ECU and EM2, fun was the last word I was= shouting out.  Dang it.......I am still getting the EM2 stuck in cali= bration mode.  DOH!  The engine did start right up though after a= ll the re-terminations, but the EM display continues to stay in calibration= mode (Select Channel 0; on the first line and Coolant Temperature on the s= econd line), when I press the button to clea it it flashes to the main scre= en for about a second and goes back to the calibration mode.  So, a lo= t a effort but no forward progress.  Opps, sorry, I degress to my curr= ent frustration <g>
 
I guess I will try to give Tracy a call in the mo= rning...I think it is a tech support day or is Tracy out of town again?&nbs= p; Man, my timing sucks.  Oh well.  On with the build.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
 

 

 

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