X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2177369 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:09:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070714150903.GBYZ1399.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:09:03 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.132.90]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id PT921X00Q1xAn3c0000000; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:09:02 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 changes Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:10:27 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c7c631$7e6b3200$6400a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5EE.7047F200" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5EE.7047F200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark wrote:=20 Best I recall, my coil disable switches work as they should, i.e. engine slows when shutting down either. But is slows more when I disable the leading coils than when disabling the trailing coils. I haven't tried = it at high rpm though. Mine behaves as expected at lower power, but at high power (I guess = about 4800 rpm) I get a slight decrease in rpm turning of leading (~100 rpm) = and a larger decrease shutting off trailing (~300-400 rpm). Whenever you have the opportunity to check at higher rpm, I'd be = interested in hearing the result. =20 I do suspect that my auto-tune feature isn't working (could be operator error). It was supposed to have had the auto-tune upgrade done a year = or so back. But I go through all the steps described in the manual but the mixture doesn't seem to change. =20 Be sure it is getting into track mode, and then set mode 9. The table = value is displayed (I think upper right on the display) and you can see it changing.=20 =20 What's your current status? Getting close to first flight?? =20 Al =20 =20 On 7/11/07, Al Gietzen wrote:=20 Further to my last posting on the subject; we did the following changes = to my 20B EC2 =20 1. reduced values of the added caps for noise filtering on the = ignitions circuits by a factor of ten.=20 2. replaced the MAP pressure sensor on Controller "A"=20 3. added what is being referred to as the 'clamping diodes' or 'snubbers' on the injector circuits.=20 =20 Changing the capacitors had no noticeable effect on what I believed was = a timing issue. I still find that at low power disabling leading coils = has definitely more effect than disabling trailing; whereas at high power, = say about 19" MAP and above, disabling the leading has small effect and disabling trialing has larger effect. I have concluded that the timing = is not late with both on; since I found that now retarding the timing a 2-3 steps (4-5 degrees) at power increased the rpm a bit. I think the larger caps did result in a small retarding of the spark.=20 =20 Does anyone else with a 3-rotor, and using the LS1 coils, note the same behavior when disabling leading/trailing ignition? Tracy mentioned = that on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either set results in the = engine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the circuitry.=20 =20 I thought that the strange leaning of mixture with altitude when running = on controller A was solved by replacing the pressure sensor - until I got = over 5000'. Then over the next 200 ft increase the mixture monitor bar on = the EM2 went slowly off the bottom of the scale, and it took turning the = mixture knob to about 3:00 position to return it to a mid-scale reading. = Switching to controller B gave me a momentary scare - the engine quit, well = completely lost power for the fraction of a second that it took to switch back to = A. More on this below.=20 =20 Adding the snubbers on the injector circuits resulted in quite a = different profile on the mixture table settings. It also resulted in smoother = running at low rpm, and seemingly easier tuning to get smooth transition from = 'low' to 'high' table, and across the stage point (or maybe I'm just getting better re-tuning). =20 =20 One thing I had discovered when re-tuning was that, apparently due to powering up the unit on the bench to check the MAP sensor, resulted in = the injector pulse setting (mode 3) to get set to a much lower value, and = the stage point to someplace out of range. The engine would only run with = the cold start switch on. Once I got those things straightened out, things proceeded smoothly. When I had all well on controller A, I did the copy = A to B. Prior to flying, I had not checked running on B. (OK, it's on my = check list, I just bypassed it.) After the episode in the air I figured out = that B was acting like A did before the retuning. I tried multiple times again = to copy A to B; but it did not take. I had to manually retune B to get = things running right. Don't know what, but the copy A to B is not working.=20 =20 Didn't mean to run on here - am I boring anyone yet :-)? =20 Expect to fly tomorrow for some air pressure measurements on the oil = cooler. =20 Al =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5EE.7047F200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark = wrote: 

Best I recall, my coil disable switches work = as they should, i.e. engine slows when shutting down either.  But = is slows more when I disable the leading coils than when = disabling the trailing coils.  I haven't tried it at high rpm = though.

Mine behaves as expected at lower = power, but at high power (I guess about 4800 rpm) I get a slight decrease in = rpm turning of leading (~100 rpm) and a larger decrease shutting off = trailing (~300-400 rpm).

Whenever you have the opportunity = to check at higher rpm, I’d be interested in hearing the = result.

 

I do suspect that my auto-tune feature isn't = working (could be operator error).  It was supposed to have had the = auto-tune upgrade done a year or so back.  But I go through all the steps described in the manual but the mixture = doesn't seem to change.

 

Be sure it is getting into track = mode, and then set mode 9.  The table value is displayed (I think upper = right on the display) and you can see it changing.

 

What’s your current status? Getting close to first flight??

 

Al  

 

On = 7/11/07, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Further to my last posting on the subject; = we did the following changes to my 20B EC2

 

1.     reduced values of the added caps for noise filtering on the ignitions circuits by a factor of ten. =

2.     replaced the MAP pressure sensor on = Controller "A"

3.     added what is being referred to as the = 'clamping diodes' or 'snubbers' on the injector circuits.

 

Changing the capacitors had no noticeable = effect on what I believed was a timing issue.  I still find that at low power disabling leading coils has definitely more effect than disabling = trailing; whereas at high power, say about 19" MAP and above, disabling the = leading has small effect and disabling trialing has larger effect.  I have concluded that the timing is not late with both on; since I found that = now retarding the timing a 2-3 steps (4-5 degrees) at power increased the = rpm a bit. I think the larger caps did result in a small retarding of the = spark.

 

Does anyone else with a 3-rotor, and using = the LS1 coils, note the same behavior when disabling leading/trailing ignition? =   Tracy mentioned that on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either set = results in the engine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the = circuitry.

 

I thought that the strange leaning of = mixture with altitude when running on controller A was solved by replacing the = pressure sensor – until I got over 5000'.  Then over the next 200 ft = increase the mixture monitor bar on the EM2 went slowly off the bottom of the = scale, and it took turning the mixture knob to about 3:00 position to return it to = a mid-scale reading.  Switching to controller B gave me a momentary = scare – the engine quit, well completely lost power for the fraction of = a second that it took to switch back to A. More on this below. =

 

Adding the snubbers on the injector circuits resulted in quite a different profile on the mixture table = settings.  It also resulted in smoother running at low rpm, and seemingly easier tuning to = get smooth transition from 'low' to 'high' table, and across the stage point = (or maybe I'm just getting better re-tuning). 

 

One thing I had discovered when re-tuning = was that, apparently due to powering up the unit on the bench to check the MAP = sensor, resulted in the injector pulse setting (mode 3) to get set to a much = lower value, and the stage point to someplace out of range.  The engine = would only run with the cold start switch on.  Once I got those things straightened out, things proceeded smoothly.  When I had all well = on controller A, I did the copy A to B. Prior to flying, I had not checked = running on B. (OK, it's on my check list, I just bypassed it.) After the episode = in the air I figured out that B was acting like A did before the retuning. I = tried multiple times again to copy A to B; but it did not take.  I had to manually retune B to get things running right.  Don't know what, = but the copy A to B is not working.

 

Didn't mean to run on here – am I = boring anyone yet J?

 

Expect to fly tomorrow for some air pressure measurements on the oil cooler.

 

Al

 

 

 

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