X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2172947 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:12:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l6CABMI3028776 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002e01c7c46d$18190240$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] EC2 changes Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:12:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C7C44B.90C242F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C7C44B.90C242F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not Bored, Al, just can't offer any suggestions since I don't have a 3 = rotor or its EC2. First, I had heard about the ignition test on the = Renesis killing the engine - that bears looking into for sure. Too bad you had the hiccup with controller B, I Would have been = interested to see if it exhibited the same +5000 MSL effect on your = mixture as controller A. =20 Need to get Tracy to finish his 3 rotor RV-8 so he can get it in the air = and perhaps experience some of these happenings first hand {:>) Interested in your coolant and oil temps on this next flight. Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 changes Further to my last posting on the subject; we did the following = changes to my 20B EC2 1.. reduced values of the added caps for noise filtering on the = ignitions circuits by a factor of ten.=20 2.. replaced the MAP pressure sensor on Controller "A"=20 3.. added what is being referred to as the 'clamping diodes' or = 'snubbers' on the injector circuits.=20 Changing the capacitors had no noticeable effect on what I believed = was a timing issue. I still find that at low power disabling leading = coils has definitely more effect than disabling trailing; whereas at = high power, say about 19" MAP and above, disabling the leading has small = effect and disabling trialing has larger effect. I have concluded that = the timing is not late with both on; since I found that now retarding = the timing a 2-3 steps (4-5 degrees) at power increased the rpm a bit. I = think the larger caps did result in a small retarding of the spark. Does anyone else with a 3-rotor, and using the LS1 coils, note the = same behavior when disabling leading/trailing ignition? Tracy mentioned = that on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either set results in = the engine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the circuitry. I thought that the strange leaning of mixture with altitude when = running on controller A was solved by replacing the pressure sensor - = until I got over 5000'. Then over the next 200 ft increase the mixture = monitor bar on the EM2 went slowly off the bottom of the scale, and it = took turning the mixture knob to about 3:00 position to return it to a = mid-scale reading. Switching to controller B gave me a momentary scare = - the engine quit, well completely lost power for the fraction of a = second that it took to switch back to A. More on this below. Adding the snubbers on the injector circuits resulted in quite a = different profile on the mixture table settings. It also resulted in = smoother running at low rpm, and seemingly easier tuning to get smooth = transition from 'low' to 'high' table, and across the stage point (or = maybe I'm just getting better re-tuning). =20 One thing I had discovered when re-tuning was that, apparently due to = powering up the unit on the bench to check the MAP sensor, resulted in = the injector pulse setting (mode 3) to get set to a much lower value, = and the stage point to someplace out of range. The engine would only = run with the cold start switch on. Once I got those things straightened = out, things proceeded smoothly. When I had all well on controller A, I = did the copy A to B. Prior to flying, I had not checked running on B. = (OK, it's on my check list, I just bypassed it.) After the episode in = the air I figured out that B was acting like A did before the retuning. = I tried multiple times again to copy A to B; but it did not take. I had = to manually retune B to get things running right. Don't know what, but = the copy A to B is not working. Didn't mean to run on here - am I boring anyone yetJ? Expect to fly tomorrow for some air pressure measurements on the oil = cooler. Al ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C7C44B.90C242F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not Bored, Al, just can't offer any suggestions = since I=20 don't have a 3 rotor or its EC2.  First, I had heard about the = ignition=20 test on the Renesis killing the engine - that bears looking into for=20 sure.
 
Too bad you had the hiccup with controller B, I = Would have=20 been interested to see if it exhibited the same +5000 MSL effect on your = mixture=20 as controller A. 
 
Need to get Tracy to finish his 3 rotor RV-8 so = he can get=20 it in the air and perhaps experience some of these happenings first = hand=20 {:>)
 
Interested in your coolant and oil temps on this = next=20 flight.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al = Gietzen=20
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 = 12:23=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 = changes

Further to my last = posting on=20 the subject; we did the following changes to my 20B = EC2

 

  1. reduced values of = the added=20 caps for noise filtering on the ignitions circuits by a factor of=20 ten.=20
  2. replaced the MAP = pressure=20 sensor on Controller =93A=94=20
  3. added what is being = referred=20 to as the =91clamping diodes=92 or =91snubbers=92 on the injector=20 circuits.

 

Changing the = capacitors had no=20 noticeable effect on what I believed was a timing issue.  I still = find=20 that at low power disabling leading coils has definitely more effect = than=20 disabling trailing; whereas at high power, say about 19=94 MAP and = above,=20 disabling the leading has small effect and disabling trialing has = larger=20 effect.  I have concluded that the timing is not late with both = on; since=20 I found that now retarding the timing a 2-3 steps (4-5 degrees) at = power=20 increased the rpm a bit. I think the larger caps did result in a small = retarding of the spark.

 

Does anyone else with = a 3-rotor,=20 and using the LS1 coils, note the same=20 behavior when disabling leading/trailing ignition? =  Tracy=20 mentioned that on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either = set=20 results in the engine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the = circuitry.

 

I thought that the = strange=20 leaning of mixture with altitude when running on controller A was = solved by=20 replacing the pressure sensor =96 until I got over 5000=92.  Then = over the=20 next 200 ft increase the mixture monitor bar on the EM2 went slowly = off the=20 bottom of the scale, and it took turning the mixture knob to about = 3:00=20 position to return it to a mid-scale reading.  Switching to = controller B=20 gave me a momentary scare =96 the engine quit, well completely lost = power for=20 the fraction of a second that it took to switch back to A. More on = this=20 below.

 

Adding the snubbers on = the=20 injector circuits resulted in quite a different profile on the mixture = table=20 settings.  It also resulted in smoother running at low rpm, and = seemingly=20 easier tuning to get smooth transition from =91low=92 to =91high=92 = table, and across=20 the stage point (or maybe I=92m just getting better re-tuning). =20

 

One thing I had = discovered when=20 re-tuning was that, apparently due to powering up the unit on the = bench to=20 check the MAP sensor, resulted in the injector pulse setting (mode 3) = to get=20 set to a much lower value, and the stage point to someplace out of = range.=20  The engine would only run with the cold start switch on.  = Once I=20 got those things straightened out, things proceeded smoothly.  = When I had=20 all well on controller A, I did the copy A to B. Prior to flying, I = had not=20 checked running on B. (OK, it=92s on my check list, I just bypassed = it.) After=20 the episode in the air I figured out that B was acting like A did = before the=20 retuning. I tried multiple times again to copy A to B; but it did not = take.=20  I had to manually retune B to get things running right.  = Don=92t know=20 what, but the copy A to B is not working.

 

Didn=92t mean to run = on here =96 am=20 I boring anyone yetJ?

 

Expect to fly tomorrow = for some=20 air pressure measurements on the oil cooler.

 

Al

 

 

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