X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2111195 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:54:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.157.36; envelope-from=BMears9413@aol.com Received: from BMears9413@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id q.ccc.143d1992 (52638) for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-mf06 (webmail-mf06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.219]) by cia-d14.mx.aol.com (v117.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAD144-cd9e4677d1ee130; Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:54:06 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:54:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bmears9413@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C980880E6B4331_8D8_196B6_webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 27618 Received: from 65.182.71.8 by webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.219) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:54:06 -0400 Message-Id: <8C980880E6B4331-8D8-D798@webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.88.219 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8C980880E6B4331_8D8_196B6_webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" And let me assure you, a P port will NOT get the same GPH. Theres a lot of f= uel wasted with the P Port due to the overlap in timing. Bob Mears Supermarine Spitfire -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 6:58 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations Sounds like we have PP nailed down, so now just need to find a source at a r= easonable price.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On the other hand, I have to keep reminding myself that when I fly, I normal= ly do not come anywhere close to using the power I can produce with my old s= treet ported 13B. I keep the fuel burn down to 7.5-8 GPH. Now, take off is o= ne place where I do use all the old engine can produce even if only for 2-3=20= minutes. Of course, it always takes fuel to produce power and the thought th= at crosses my mind is that the for the same power produced the Renesis will=20= undoubtedly get a better specific fuel consumption than a PP.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0So for those that want the utmost in power, it sounds like the PP is t= he way to go. For other cheap old chaps the Renesis would appear to offer a=20= cost effective power increase.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ed=C2=A0 ----- Original Message ----- From: =C2=A0 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =C2=A0 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 5:34 PM=C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ed, Jerry and others,=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sizing of the port and the length of the intake tubes are the details= =C2=A0 that will control powerband. P-ports have been shown to produce more=C2=A0 power at anything above 2000 RPM. We are talking about details here.=C2=A0 Jerry you are correct that you can use smaller ports, no problem, but=C2=A0 not a LOT smaller. For performance with control I believe I'll chose to=C2= =A0 run a smaller throttle body. You can limit the system on either end.=C2=A0 Bill Jepson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----=C2=A0 From: Ed Anderson =C2=A0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =C2=A0 Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:25 am=C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Jerry,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I know you did a lot research on the right sizing of a PP for our=C2=A0 application. Any of that material, rationale, etc, you would care to=C2=A0 share at this time?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The reason I am interested is that with the Mazda folks claiming that=C2=A0 the six port Renesis produced 40% more HP than an older 13B. If I=C2=A0 assume a modest 160 Hp for the old 13B, 40% more would provide 1.4*160=C2= =A0 =3D 224 HP which I believe is in the ball park of what they are now=C2=A0 claiming for HP. Now that sounds goo, however, that is probably at 9000=C2= =A0 rpm which is probably a bit high for our needs. So if the PP could=C2=A0 produce 224 HP at a lesser rpm say no more than 7500 rpm, then the PP=C2=A0 would suit our needs better (just my opinion of course).=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ed=C2=A0 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" =C2= =A0 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =C2=A0 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:33 PM=C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to P port discussions. I=C2=A0 agree >with everything Bill has written with one exception. I doubt the=C2= =A0 big p >ports are advantageous at our RPM. A 1.5" i.d. port will flow=C2=A0 7500 rpm, >no problem. The smaller ports are easier to time (less=C2=A0 overlap) and the >smaller dia. intake tubes are much easier to fit.=C2=A0 > jerry=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 > On Jun 18, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:=C2=A0 >> Bill, AMEN to all. Richard Sohn N2071U ----- Original Message ----- From:= >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:12 AM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: F= w: Different Rotary Port configurations Guys, >> Lets cut to the chase. The=20= P-port rotary will idle fine. The=C2=A0 original=C2=A0 >> 12As were p-port. Lots of the NSU wankels were p-port. John Deere=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 >> MB C111 engines were p-port. There was no comment that these engines >> d= idn't idle. Perhaps not as smoothly as the side port engines, but=C2=A0 idle=C2=A0 >> none the less. The P-port makes the most power, period. Mazda=C2=A0 wouldn't=C2=A0 >> have used the P-port only on their LeMans engine if combination=C2=A0 ports=C2=A0 >> would have worked better. Don't think for a second they didn't try other=20= >> configurations either. They used the far trailing plug to=C2=A0 improve=C2=A0 >> efficiency less than 2%. Richard's work showed no improvement to=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 >> with the side port/p-port combo. Anywhere but idle my guess would be that= >> the inrush from the p-port probably causes minimal flow in the side >> p= orts. The p-port is open much sooner and flow is underway by=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 >> time the side port opens. If we had a source for finished p-port housings= >> that cost the same as the standard housings we would all be using them >= > and the discussion would cease and we would move on to=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 >> subjects. For aircraft use the big p-port is for most cases the best >> p= ossible solution. We can improve on minor details, but not much.=C2=A0 The=C2=A0 >> simpler manifolding and more compact package when using fewer tubes=C2= =A0 for=C2=A0 >> the intake are all pluses for the p-port. We don't have car low RPM >> is= sues to worry about. If a good source of the Mazda racing p-port >> housings= was available for the same price as standard housings I'd=C2=A0 have=C2=A0 >> 3 on order right now. (20B remember) Bill Jepson Well, Mark - perhaps in=20= >> the future Only so much time and so many things that would be fun to try.= >> IF I interpret the charts correctly the P + S type intake configuration=20= >> appears to provide much more intake port area than either the P or S type= >> along. Makes sense - if you have twice as many intakes it has more area.= >> Supposedly the P+S overcomes the low rpm idle problem of the PP alone. >= > But, for aircraft usage, I think Richard is on the money, you don't >> rea= lly spend much time at idle in aircraft usage and I idle above=C2=A0 1600=C2=A0 >> rpm in any case, so who cares {:>) - just go with the P port. However, I=20= >> am intrigued by the large intake area that the P + S configuration has >>= over even the PP alone and what that might potent for POWER! More Power, >>= Scotty!!!!! Saw some information on the Renesis in an SAE paper that >> ind= icates=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 >> six port (They call it the HIGH POWER Renesis) produces 40% more=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 >> than the standard 13B. They did not make a comparison to the 4 port >> Re= nesis but presumably it produces less than the six port Renesis=C2=A0 but=C2=A0 >> more than the older 13B. They also didn't specify the rpm point that >> o= ccurred, but I assume it must be near its maximum. Also, its not clear >> if= this figure was based on the earlier 250 HP claim for the Renesis by >> Maz= da or the later adjusted 237 HP claim (actually I'd=C2=A0 take=C2=A0 >> either one) . The intake configuration and operation on the six port is >= > quite involved, but they do make use of the Dynamic Effect. They call it= =C2=A0 the=C2=A0 >> Sequential Dynamic Air Intake System (S-DAIS). Since there is no >> intak= e/exhaust port overlap in the Renesis, they appear to make use=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 >> the "A" pulse which is the pressure wave created when the high=C2=A0 velocity=C2=A0 >> air in the intake slams into the closing port and bounced back down=C2= =A0 the=C2=A0 >> manifold. They then have several valves that activate at different >> rpm= /air flow situations that control the sequential activation of >> elements o= f the S-DAIS. As well as the "A" pulse, the older NA 13B DEI >> also used th= e=C2=A0 stronger=C2=A0 >> "B" pulse created when the intake opened releasing a burst of the trapped= >> exhaust gas residue to create a power shock wave which=C2=A0 raised=C2=A0 >> the manifold pressure at the second rotor's intake. But, since there is >= > no intake/exhaust overlap with the Renesis side ports, it would appear >>=20= that only the "A" pulse is used to enhance power. Ed ----- Original >> Messa= ge ----- >>=C2=A0 >> From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, June 18, >= > 2007 9:12 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port >> configu= rations Thanks Richard for the clarification. Mark S. (Looks like >> I shoul= d have typed a little faster.) On 6/18/07, Mark Steitle >> wrote: Well Ed, It looks like you've got yourself a >> new intake projec= t. Didn't=C2=A0 Richard=C2=A0 >> Sohn try running side and peripheral intake porting on his one=C2=A0 rotor?=C2=A0 >> I vaguely remember him mentioning it and that he abandoned the idea.=C2= =A0 I=C2=A0 >> think it had something to do with the complexity of the dual runners and=20= >> that he was satisfied with the idle characteristics of the=C2=A0 p-port?=C2=A0 >> Maybe Richard can comment? Mark S. On 6/17/07, Ed Anderson >> wrote: Ok, here's the answer to my question. >> The second= image shows a three barrel carb with the primary going to two >> side intak= e ports and the secondary going to the Peripheral ports. >> Interesting conc= ept. Ed ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors=20= in aircraft Sent: Sunday, June 17, >> 2007 10:15 PM Subject: Different Rotar= y Port configurations Ok, getting a >> bit quite again. Here is something th= at some of you=C2=A0 may=C2=A0 >> find interesting. Its a graph comparing the possible different port >> co= nfigurations for the Rotary engine. The top graph shows the intake and >> ex= haust port opening for a engine with a peripheral intake and peripheral >> e= xhaust - such as a 13B=C2=A0 which=C2=A0 >> has been converted to a PP intake. The trapezoidal shapes show the port >= > area. For example on the first graph the first rectangular area entitled >= > PORT shows the Peripheral exhaust port open at 63Deg ATDC. There are two >= > trapezoid areas shown for the Peripheral intake. A "P" which I presume >>=20= stands for Primary and a much larger P+S which I presumes stands for a >> co= mbined primary and Secondary port. Although, I do not ever recall a PP >> wi= th two=C2=A0 tubes=C2=A0 >> one for primary and one for secondary. So there may be another >> explana= tion. The second graph is our traditional 13B with sideport intake >> and pe= ripheral port exhaust. Here the intake timing for the intake is=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 >> of the NA 13B although it shows the intake opening a bit later than=C2= =A0 the=C2=A0 >> stock 13B but closing at the stock 40 deg ABDC. If you look at the area >= > under the first graphs "P" trapezoid it=C2=A0 appears=C2=A0 >> to be open much longer than the P for the side port intake (2nd=C2=A0 graph),=C2=A0 >> but the trapezoid is not as high. Wonder what that signifies? Open longer= >> but not as large a port area? Anyhow, thought some of you might find it=20= >> interesting. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC >> eand= erson@carolina.rr.com >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#= N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html -- >> Homepage: http://www.f= lyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html=C2=A0 ______________________________________________________________________=C2= =A0 __=C2=A0 >> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's=C2=A0 free=C2=A0 >> from AOL at AOL.com. =3D0 -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archi= ve and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/ List.html= -- >> No >> virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Editi= on. >> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date:=C2=A0 6/17/2007 >> 8:23 AM=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >> http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ >>=C2=A0 flyrotary/List.html=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=C2=A0 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=C2=A0 Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ________________________________________________________________________=C2= =A0 AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free=C2= =A0 from AOL at AOL.com.=C2=A0 =3D0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --=C2=A0 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=C2=A0 Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l =C2=A0 --=C2=A0 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=C2=A0 Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l=C2=A0 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from= AOL at AOL.com. ----------MB_8C980880E6B4331_8D8_196B6_webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
And let me assure you, a P port will NOT get the same GPH. Theres a lot= of fuel wasted with the P Port due to the overlap in timing.
=C2=A0
Bob Mears
Supermarine Spitfire


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 6:58 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations

Sounds like we have PP nailed down, so now=20= just need to find a source at a reasonable price.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On the other hand, I have to keep reminding myself that when I fly, I normal= ly do not come anywhere close to using the power I can produce with my old s= treet ported 13B. I keep the fuel burn down to 7.5-8 GPH. Now, take off is o= ne place where I do use all the old engine can produce even if only for 2-3=20= minutes. Of course, it always takes fuel to produce power and the thought th= at crosses my mind is that the for the same power produced the Renesis will=20= undoubtedly get a better specific fuel consumption than a PP.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0So for those that want the utmost in power, it sounds like the PP is t= he way to go. For other cheap old chaps the Renesis would appear to offer a=20= cost effective power increase.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ed=C2=A0
----- Original Message ----- From: <wrjjrs= @aol.com>=C2=A0
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=C2=A0
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 5:34 PM=C2=A0
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ed, Jerry and others,=C2=A0
=C2=A0Sizing of the port and the length of the intake tubes are the details= =C2=A0
that will control powerband. P-ports have been shown to produce more=C2=A0 power at anything above 2000 RPM. We are talking about details here.=C2=A0 Jerry you are correct that you can use smaller ports, no problem, but=C2=A0<= br> not a LOT smaller. For performance with control I believe I'll chose to=C2= =A0
run a smaller throttle body. You can limit the system on either end.=C2=A0 Bill Jepson=C2=A0
=C2=A0
-----Original Message-----=C2=A0
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@ca= rolina.rr.com>=C2=A0
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=C2=A0
Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:25 am=C2=A0
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Hi Jerry,=C2=A0
=C2=A0
I know you did a lot research on the right sizing of a PP for our=C2=A0
application. Any of that material, rationale, etc, you would care to=C2=A0 share at this time?=C2=A0
=C2=A0
The reason I am interested is that with the Mazda folks claiming that=C2=A0<= br> the six port Renesis produced 40% more HP than an older 13B. If I=C2=A0
assume a modest 160 Hp for the old 13B, 40% more would provide 1.4*160=C2= =A0
=3D 224 HP which I believe is in the ball park of what they are now=C2=A0 claiming for HP. Now that sounds goo, however, that is probably at 9000=C2= =A0
rpm which is probably a bit high for our needs. So if the PP could=C2=A0
produce 224 HP at a lesser rpm say no more than 7500 rpm, then the PP=C2=A0<= br> would suit our needs better (just my opinion of course).=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ed=C2=A0
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" <jerryhey@earthlink.net>=C2=A0
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=C2=A0
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:33 PM=C2=A0
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configurations=C2=A0
=C2=A0
>I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to P port discussions. I=C2= =A0
agree >with everything Bill has written with one exception. I doubt the= =C2=A0
big p >ports are advantageous at our RPM. A 1.5" i.d. port will flow=C2= =A0
7500 rpm, >no problem. The smaller ports are easier to time (less=C2=A0 overlap) and the >smaller dia. intake tubes are much easier to fit.=C2= =A0
> jerry=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
> On Jun 18, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:=C2=A0
>> Bill, AMEN to all. Richard Sohn N2071U ----- Original Message -----= From: >> <wrjjrs@aol.com> To= : "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1= 1:12 AM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Port configur= ations Guys, >> Lets cut to the chase. The P-port rotary will idle fin= e. The=C2=A0
original=C2=A0
>> 12As were p-port. Lots of the NSU wankels were p-port. John Deere= =C2=A0
and=C2=A0
>> MB C111 engines were p-port. There was no comment that these engine= s >> didn't idle. Perhaps not as smoothly as the side port engines, bu= t=C2=A0
idle=C2=A0
>> none the less. The P-port makes the most power, period. Mazda=C2= =A0
wouldn't=C2=A0
>> have used the P-port only on their LeMans engine if combination=C2= =A0
ports=C2=A0
>> would have worked better. Don't think for a second they didn't try=20= other >> configurations either. They used the far trailing plug to=C2= =A0
improve=C2=A0
>> efficiency less than 2%. Richard's work showed no improvement to= =C2=A0
power=C2=A0
>> with the side port/p-port combo. Anywhere but idle my guess would b= e that >> the inrush from the p-port probably causes minimal flow in t= he side >> ports. The p-port is open much sooner and flow is underway=20= by=C2=A0
the=C2=A0
>> time the side port opens. If we had a source for finished p-port ho= usings >> that cost the same as the standard housings we would all be=20= using them >> and the discussion would cease and we would move on to= =C2=A0
other=C2=A0
>> subjects. For aircraft use the big p-port is for most cases the bes= t >> possible solution. We can improve on minor details, but not much.= =C2=A0
The=C2=A0
>> simpler manifolding and more compact package when using fewer tubes= =C2=A0
for=C2=A0
>> the intake are all pluses for the p-port. We don't have car low RPM= >> issues to worry about. If a good source of the Mazda racing p-port= >> housings was available for the same price as standard housings I'd= =C2=A0
have=C2=A0
>> 3 on order right now. (20B remember) Bill Jepson Well, Mark - perha= ps in >> the future Only so much time and so many things that would be= fun to try. >> IF I interpret the charts correctly the P + S type int= ake configuration >> appears to provide much more intake port area tha= n either the P or S type >> along. Makes sense - if you have twice as=20= many intakes it has more area. >> Supposedly the P+S overcomes the low= rpm idle problem of the PP alone. >> But, for aircraft usage, I think= Richard is on the money, you don't >> really spend much time at idle=20= in aircraft usage and I idle above=C2=A0
1600=C2=A0
>> rpm in any case, so who cares {:>) - just go with the P port. Ho= wever, I >> am intrigued by the large intake area that the P + S confi= guration has >> over even the PP alone and what that might potent for=20= POWER! More Power, >> Scotty!!!!! Saw some information on the Renesis=20= in an SAE paper that >> indicates=C2=A0
the=C2=A0
>> six port (They call it the HIGH POWER Renesis) produces 40% more= =C2=A0
power=C2=A0
>> than the standard 13B. They did not make a comparison to the 4 port= >> Renesis but presumably it produces less than the six port Renesis= =C2=A0
but=C2=A0
>> more than the older 13B. They also didn't specify the rpm point tha= t >> occurred, but I assume it must be near its maximum. Also, its not= clear >> if this figure was based on the earlier 250 HP claim for the= Renesis by >> Mazda or the later adjusted 237 HP claim (actually I'd= =C2=A0
take=C2=A0
>> either one) . The intake configuration and operation on the six por= t is >> quite involved, but they do make use of the Dynamic Effect. Th= ey call it=C2=A0
the=C2=A0
>> Sequential Dynamic Air Intake System (S-DAIS). Since there is no &g= t;> intake/exhaust port overlap in the Renesis, they appear to make use= =C2=A0
of=C2=A0
>> the "A" pulse which is the pressure wave created when the high=C2= =A0
velocity=C2=A0
>> air in the intake slams into the closing port and bounced back down= =C2=A0
the=C2=A0
>> manifold. They then have several valves that activate at different=20= >> rpm/air flow situations that control the sequential activation of &= gt;> elements of the S-DAIS. As well as the "A" pulse, the older NA 13B D= EI >> also used the=C2=A0
stronger=C2=A0
>> "B" pulse created when the intake opened releasing a burst of the t= rapped >> exhaust gas residue to create a power shock wave which=C2= =A0
raised=C2=A0
>> the manifold pressure at the second rotor's intake. But, since ther= e is >> no intake/exhaust overlap with the Renesis side ports, it woul= d appear >> that only the "A" pulse is used to enhance power. Ed -----= Original >> Message ----- >>=C2=A0
>> From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, June= 18, >> 2007 9:12 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Different Rotary Por= t >> configurations Thanks Richard for the clarification. Mark S. (Loo= ks like >> I should have typed a little faster.) On 6/18/07, Mark Stei= tle >> <msteitle@gmail.com&g= t; wrote: Well Ed, It looks like you've got yourself a >> new intake p= roject. Didn't=C2=A0
Richard=C2=A0
>> Sohn try running side and peripheral intake porting on his one=C2= =A0
rotor?=C2=A0
>> I vaguely remember him mentioning it and that he abandoned the idea= .=C2=A0
I=C2=A0
>> think it had something to do with the complexity of the dual runner= s and >> that he was satisfied with the idle characteristics of the= =C2=A0
p-port?=C2=A0
>> Maybe Richard can comment? Mark S. On 6/17/07, Ed Anderson >>= <eanderson@carolina.rr.com= > wrote: Ok, here's the answer to my question. >> The second image= shows a three barrel carb with the primary going to two >> side intak= e ports and the secondary going to the Peripheral ports. >> Interestin= g concept. Ed ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ed Anderson To: Ro= tary motors in aircraft Sent: Sunday, June 17, >> 2007 10:15 PM Subjec= t: Different Rotary Port configurations Ok, getting a >> bit quite aga= in. Here is something that some of you=C2=A0
may=C2=A0
>> find interesting. Its a graph comparing the possible different port= >> configurations for the Rotary engine. The top graph shows the inta= ke and >> exhaust port opening for a engine with a peripheral intake a= nd peripheral >> exhaust - such as a 13B=C2=A0
which=C2=A0
>> has been converted to a PP intake. The trapezoidal shapes show the=20= port >> area. For example on the first graph the first rectangular are= a entitled >> PORT shows the Peripheral exhaust port open at 63Deg ATD= C. There are two >> trapezoid areas shown for the Peripheral intake. A= "P" which I presume >> stands for Primary and a much larger P+S which= I presumes stands for a >> combined primary and Secondary port. Altho= ugh, I do not ever recall a PP >> with two=C2=A0
tubes=C2=A0
>> one for primary and one for secondary. So there may be another >= > explanation. The second graph is our traditional 13B with sideport inta= ke >> and peripheral port exhaust. Here the intake timing for the inta= ke is=C2=A0
that=C2=A0
>> of the NA 13B although it shows the intake opening a bit later than= =C2=A0
the=C2=A0
>> stock 13B but closing at the stock 40 deg ABDC. If you look at the=20= area >> under the first graphs "P" trapezoid it=C2=A0
appears=C2=A0
>> to be open much longer than the P for the side port intake (2nd=C2= =A0
graph),=C2=A0
>> but the trapezoid is not as high. Wonder what that signifies? Open=20= longer >> but not as large a port area? Anyhow, thought some of you mi= ght find it >> interesting. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Ma= tthews, NC >> eanderson@c= arolina.rr.com >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary= /configs.htm#N494BW >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html -- >>= Homepage: http://www.= flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancai= ronline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=C2=A0
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